Silver solder NEED HELP

[tango3065]

Is it really gold color? My buudy just had a 870 reblued and the barrel band that mounts on the mag tube that holds the barrel on had to removed or the heat from the blueing process removed it. The gunsmith said that he used silver solder to put it back but if u look close there is a golden color line around the clamp instead of silver.

Is this really silver solder even tho its goldish color?

What are the chances of the solder breaking? (which would mean the barrel would just fall off)

Would you trust this on your HD shotty?

Is this just as strong as it was when it was new?

 

[Old Fuff]

Well yes, some silver solder does have a yellow tint, but my question would be, "if the bluing process at Remington didn't effect the original solder (and I'm sure it didn't) why did things come apart in this gunsmith's tank?"

As to how well it will hold up ... that depends on the particular solder, and how well the re-soldering was done. I don't think that any of us can answer that. Somehow too many things in this story don't add up. I think your friend should start asking questions ...

 

[mete]

The term "silver solder " is often misused.There is 'soft solder' and the silver type is about 95% tin and 5% silver and has a silver color and melts about 440F.Then there is "hard solder" actually a brazing alloy melting at about 1100F or higher.These are copper based alloys, some containing silver and will vary according to the alloying elements.....So the "silver solder" used by the gunsmith could have been any of a number of alloys.

 

[tango3065]

Th guy might of said brazing, I do know that when the barrel was in the blueing tank that the barrel mount did come off and he clearly stated to my buddy that this would happen ahead of time. He has shot a couple hundred rounds thru the gun and it hasn't came off. The gunsmith done a good job with gun, it has been done a couple years he just all the sudden started thinking about the duribility of it. I looked at it today and there is a perfect goldish coler line all the way around it, also I took the barrel off and it seems like its on there good and tight. He just wanted some expert opinions.

 

[Old Fuff]

There may be a misunderstanding.

Soft solder, made from lead and tin, is attacked by hot tank bluing. Gunsmiths are warned not to blue older double-barreled shotguns with this process because the barrel assembly may come apart.

Today's manufacturers do not use soft-solder (sometimes called "plumber's solder" for this reason, and the "silver solder" a.k.a. "silver braze" they do use will stand up to hot-tank bluing. If, as it appears, he did a good job and used the right solder there should be no problem. But be that as it may, any post-World War Two Remington barrel shouldn't have a solder problem. We are still missing some details.

 

[HSMITH]

That color difference is there on a stock from Remington gun, head down to the local store and you will see it. Purple and gold on my guns......

 

[tango3065]

Its gold and very hard, he had a small run and I tried to scrape it off and it would'nt come off. Any opinions on what it is now? Also we're not sure why the barrel mount came off during the blueing, or if it did come off, but he for sure redone the solder, or brazing which ever one it is? Also what would be the best way to determine if it will stay. FYI also the gun has fired a couple hundred shots since the work was done.

 

[PGroenewold]

What you are describing does indeed sound like silver brazing. I occasionally use 45% silver solder for HVAC and refrigeration work. It works well for joining copper to steel or brass. Despite its name and its silver content, it is gold in color and is extremely durable.

I forget its melting point, but the stuff I use won't start flowing until you've heated the steel or brass workpiece to almost a dull red. I can't see that a hot-bluing process would ever cause a true silver-brazed joint to melt.

HTH,

Pete

 

[tango3065]

Any ideas why he would of redone the solder?

 

[Jim K]

AFAIK, that ring is electric brazed in place, not soft soldered. I think I would call Remington and ask them. Something doesn't seem to add up.

Jim

 

[Zeke/PA]

The guys who replied to this thread seemed to have said it all.
I often use a solder produced by the Eutectic Corp. which is 95% silver with a flow point of 450F, with a tensile strength of 15,000 psi.
McMaster Carr sells a solder called EZ-FLOW44 which is gold in color and has a flow point of 1000F.
Bluing salts will affect the soft solder but not the gold colored stuff.
Respectfuly, Zeke

 

[tango3065]

I still wish I knew why he redone it, any opinions?

 

[dfariswheel]

Suffice to say, SOMETHING ain't kosher.

Although there have been cases of Remington barrel support rings that weren't properly brazed on, this is RARE.

Unlike soft solder, the braze alloy used is not affected by a hot salts bluing bath.
So, it DIDN'T "just fall off in the tank", unless it was a rare case of a factory defect brazing job, and it just picked that moment to pop off.

Again, something doesn't sound right here, but likely no one will ever know the truth of it.

Personally, I'd be taking a VERY close look at the barrel, both to insure the ring was properly re-attached, straight and aligned properly, and that there's no possible damage showing in the bore from too much heat, or a possible barrel dimple in the ring area.

 

[tango3065]

The gun was bead blasted before the blueing would that have anything to do with why he redone the solder on the barrel mount?

 

[dfariswheel]

NO.

To be clear: silver "solder" or braze is a HARD, tough silver or brass-base alloy that melts at temps OVER 1000 degrees.

It IS NOT affected by anything but high temperatures.
No bluing, parkerizing, bead blasting, or any other gun finishing process can have any real effect on it.

If this gunsmith warned you that his bluing operation would cause the ring to fall off: "he clearly stated to my buddy that this would happen ahead of time", SOMETHING IS WRONG HERE.

NO braze is affected by a bluing operation, and all Remington rigs are brazed on.

Unless this barrel was damaged some time ago, and some "Billy Bob" soft soldered the ring back on, there is NO POSSIBLE WAY it "just fell off in the tank".

I STRONGLY question this gunsmith's knowledge and competence.
For him to tell you that a factory Remington barrel ring would "just fall off" in a normal bluing tank raise many questions about just what DID happen.

One question: Is this the same barrel your buddy took in to be blued?
One possible cause of all this could be that this gunsmith somehow damaged the original barrel, and to prevent having to buy your buddy a new, expensive barrel, simply put on a damaged barrel he had in the shop.

BOTTOM LINE: Remington factory barrel support rings are incredibly strong, and cannot be affected by any normal finishing process.
When properly attached at the factory, it's impossible to break one off with a large hammer without doing serious damage to the barrel.

Again, SOMETHING about this story smells.