Sizing 5.56 Brass

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sportrax

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I have been reloading for 10+ years and when it comes to 223/5.56, after cleaning/sizing/trimming, I load the 5.56 using 5.56 load data and 223 using 223 load data.

At my gun club today some members and I were talking and a handful of them claim that after you resize 5.56 brass, it becomes a 223 and should be loaded accordingly. I have always continued to use 5.56 data after resizing 5.56 brass. The load data between the two isn't significantly different, but for precision shooting it is.

Have I loaded thousands and thousands of rounds over the years without knowing this or is it not true? You would think it would take a lot more force to run thicker wall'd 5.56 brass through a 223 sizing die if it was.
 
5.56 NATO brass VS 223 Remington brass doesn't follow the 7.62 NATO brass VS 308 Winchester brass guidelines that Military brass is thicker / has less volume as most do in 7.62 NATO.

There is some 5.56 NATO brass that has more volume than some commercial 223 Remington brass. I've been loading the 223 /5.56 and 7.62 / 308 Win. since the the 1970's. You need to check your brass for volume and load to that case level safely.

I've collected a number of 5.56 and 7.62 NATO brass cases from the mid 1960's and forward to keep as reference.

That's why you don't see 5.56 and 7.62 NATO dies. The dies you buy are 223 Remington and 308 Winchester to use with the two types of NATO brass.

Some of the most inaccurate information comes from is a bunch of guys sitting around chewing the fat. Just like here on this forum. There are people that know what they're talking about and are worth listening to and and there are others that pass on misinformation from lack of experience.
 
sportrax said:
You would think it would take a lot more force to run thicker wall'd 5.56 brass through a 223 sizing die if it was.
Click to expand...

Not really... there isn't much resistance with that tiny case. Truthfully, I don't know if I can tell a difference between .308 and 7.62mm brass.

Both Walk and 762 got it... it's more about what your barrel says, not the brass headstamp. If you are loading for precision, you aren't using range brass, anyway.
 
I have seen .223 brass that is thicker than 5.56 brass. You can't always go by the head stamp, you really need to check the case volume. Checking case volume is more important when you are loading towards the max powder charge. And you use the same 223 dies for both. As states, 5.56 is generally loaded hotter and has a higher chamber pressure.

And you don't see too many rifles made now days with a true 223 chamber since the manufacturer know most people will use 223 or 5.56 ammo and will make their 223 chambers closer to 223 Wylde or 5.56 dimensions for liability reasons.

Shooting 5.56 ammo in a true 223 chamber that is on the tight side can lead to issues. I knew instantly that I had. fired a 5.55 round in my H&R 223 Handi Rifle. The extra pressure from he 5.56 round made the action pop open,
 
sportrax said:
I have been reloading for 10+ years and when it comes to 223/5.56, after cleaning/sizing/trimming, I load the 5.56 using 5.56 load data and 223 using 223 load data.

At my gun club today some members and I were talking and a handful of them claim that after you resize 5.56 brass, it becomes a 223 and should be loaded accordingly. I have always continued to use 5.56 data after resizing 5.56 brass. The load data between the two isn't significantly different, but for precision shooting it is.

Have I loaded thousands and thousands of rounds over the years without knowing this or is it not true? You would think it would take a lot more force to run thicker wall'd 5.56 brass through a 223 sizing die if it was.
Click to expand...
That's one of the "bless your heart" moments.
Take mental note to take anything that person says with a grain of salt.
 
No extra force. I have sized 5.56 in .223 small base dies at least 10,000 times. Its never been an issue if lubed. Can't tell any difference between 223/5.56 As far as loads, I used the Lyman 49th max load in .223 for years, and that exceeds M193 performance. the dies didn't mind. Case heads did separate after 5 loadings with federal brass. I don't see much difference in other brand brass. maybe in chambers, but few with a real .223 are loading to the point it matters anyway.

Anyway, simply put, you'll not feel a thing sizing.
 
mjsdwash said:
Case heads did separate after 5 loadings with federal brass
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That's a sizing issue, yes, pressure exacerbates it, but that is a sizing issue, and can/should be avoided.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/incipient-case-head-separation.734058/

A pic from the link above.
index.php


mjsdwash said:
Anyway, simply put, you'll not feel a thing sizing.
Click to expand...
Yep.
 
kmw1954 said:
OK, just don't tell my gun.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying you can't load for accuracy using range or mixed brass, I'm of the opinion the bullet matters more than the variances in brass, and particularly in something like an AR. Generally speaking, if you are loading for precision, you would be eliminating as many variables as you can, to include mystery brass.
 
Walkalong said:
That's a sizing issue, yes, pressure exacerbates it, but that is a sizing issue, and can/should be avoided.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/incipient-case-head-separation.734058/

A pic from the link above.
index.php



Yep.
Click to expand...
yes, your right. I would shoot these in a few different rifles, so I always full length resized. I know its not the best idea when loading full power loads, but I was getting no signs of pressure -until I was. Everything looked fine in 2 AR's and a Mini. After case separation #3, I lowered the load 8%. Now brass fails in the neck, and fails at 8-10 loadings, less powder used, less barrel wear. I only ran up that high because accuracy got better. 3150 fps from a 16" pencil barrel on a 6lb rifle was also just fun to shoot. I read some horror stories of case head failure on the internet before that, but have found if headspace is good, at least in my experience, its not too big a deal. With the .223's there was not venting, just the front half of the case stuck in the chamber, which caused a jam on the next round. A hard pull on the charge handle, and it cleared the jammed round, and the damaged case.

As far as getting 3100+ from a 16", in case anyone asks, I don't like to state loads because of the potential to misstate and have someone try, but Lyman 49th, .223rem H-335 max loads, federal primers, loaded to 2.260 with 55fmj. Measurements were taken about 8' with a Chrony F1. Loads ran from 3075-3250 depending on brass, from a 5.56 chambered chrome lined Bushmaster 1 in 9 barrel.
 
Charlie98 said:
I'm not saying you can't load for accuracy using range or mixed brass, I'm of the opinion the bullet matters more than the variances in brass,.
Click to expand...

Charlie98 all I use is range brass. Since I work at one I get all the brass I want. Though thru a small test on another thread I have found after using 5 headstamps, That in order from best results to worst results this; Norma, PMC, GFL, PSD, LC with the Norma being far superior than the others. Only load one headstamp at a time.
 
Well, to each their own, but moving shoulders too far back is what causes case head separations in guns with proper mechanical headspace, and case head separations can be avoided even when running max pressure, so why not fix that and have no separations, however small you think the risk is. We can size properly and make the risk zero.
 
I’ve always loaded to 223 specs but I’ve used 223 and 5.56 brass interchangeably. Recently I wanted to try some actual 5.56 loads. I should probably just use 5.56 head stamps for that if I do it.
 
12Bravo20 said:
I have seen .223 brass that is thicker than 5.56 brass. You can't always go by the head stamp, you really need to check the case volume. Checking case volume is more important when you are loading towards the max powder charge. And you use the same 223 dies for both. As states, 5.56 is generally loaded hotter and has a higher chamber pressure.

And you don't see too many rifles made now days with a true 223 chamber since the manufacturer know most people will use 223 or 5.56 ammo and will make their 223 chambers closer to 223 Wylde or 5.56 dimensions for liability reasons.

Shooting 5.56 ammo in a true 223 chamber that is on the tight side can lead to issues. I knew instantly that I had. fired a 5.55 round in my H&R 223 Handi Rifle. The extra pressure from he 5.56 round made the action pop open,
Click to expand...

Same for both of the Handi-Rifles I fired commercial 5.56 (WWB 62gr. Green Tip) in. I just set the rest of it aside and gave it to my son, who was more than happy to shoot it up in his AR. I didn't own an AR at the time.
 
The main difference is in the chambers free bore. The 556 has 0.025"+ more than a 223 and normally is a little larger dia too. All this does is allow the bullet to get moving before it contacts the lands and builds more pressure. Brass is the same as already stated. Head separation is just someone not paying attention to the sizing process and over doing it. It's very easy to control if you know how to setup your sizing die properly. I've loaded for both 223R and 556, the big difference is the 556 normally has a grain more of powder. And you normally sacrifice accuracy going to max. A lot of commercial 556 ammo is not loaded up to full 556 pressures.

I just finished a barrel that I did a custom chamber to handle 556. All I had to do was run my throating reamer in deeper to increase the Free Bore. Doing it this way I left the free bore smaller diameter, but had to extended the throats just a tad to compensate.
 
kmw1954 said:
Charlie98 all I use is range brass. Since I work at one I get all the brass I want. Though thru a small test on another thread I have found after using 5 headstamps, That in order from best results to worst results this; Norma, PMC, GFL, PSD, LC with the Norma being far superior than the others. Only load one headstamp at a time.
Click to expand...

Funny... most people poo-poo PMC brass... I like it. And you and I are in agreement on LC... although it makes good blasting ammos.
 
Charlie98 said:
Funny... most people poo-poo PMC brass... I like it. And you and I are in agreement on LC... although it makes good blasting ammos.
Click to expand...

As I said I recently took 12ea of the PMC, GFL and the LC.. All loaded exactly the same and of the 3 the PMC had the most consistent numbers followed by the GFL and then the LC... A few weeks later I was then also able to check some Norma brass with the same loads and it out performed all of them...

I have seen such a difference that right now all I am loading is PMC brass until I can acquire enough Norma. Also right now I have 50 PMC loaded up that I tried annealing for the first time so we will see if the numbers get any better.

For those interested, yes all this is being done with 223/5.56 brass. And no I have not noticed any appreciable difference in FPS between the 223 loads and the 5.56 loads when they were like loaded.
 
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