Small .45's akin to AMT Backup?

[Higgins]

I started thinking that a pistol like the AMT Backup in .45 is an attractive package for CCW. However, I've also heard AMT Backups are of poor function and quality - in addition, they are no longer made.

With that said, are there any other pistols similar to the AMT Backup in a larger caliber like .45? That is, very small package, DAO, etc... The Kel-Tec P-11 and P-40 come to mind. Anything else?

 

[Black Snowman]

IIRC I've heard a lot of people raving about thier Bursa Thunders in .45, I bet they'll be here shortly

 

[SouthpawShootr]

I have a AMT backup and, while it does what it needs to do, I would be extremely hesitant to recommend it to another. I bought mine when the company was in business and shortly after its introduction. It's a pity, this is a good design, poorly executed. I was hoping Springfield would pick it up, but I doubt this has a chance of happening.

You might look at Kimber RCP. From what I've heard it is a limited production model for a year or so and will not make it into the regular lineup (although it is on their website). Here's one on gunbroker.com

www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=14334492

As you can see, they are quite pricey. I've seen one and it's considerable smaller than the Bersa and the Glock 30/36. Try to imagine a chopped Officer's ACP. This gun would be good for defensive applications only because of its gutter sighting "system." If you have $900-1000 to spend you might look at it.

 

[RWK]

If you like -- and are accurate with -- Glocks, the G36 is worthy of your evaluation.

 

[Redlg155]

I'd give the Kahr PM40 a bit of time to see if they get all the bugs worked out, but it seems to be one of the more potent ultra compact offerings in a larger caliber out there. Although it isnt' a .45, .40 can still be considered a serious caliber.

Good Shooting
Red

 

[James Bondrock]

There are few, if any, truly tiny guns in .45 caliber in that size range. I believe Para-Ordnance makes some with a three-inch barrel and the LDA trigger, but I also distrust these short barrels to function reliably. The Glock 36 is a fine gun -- I shot one at a rental range and liked it very much -- but is not truly tiny, being about the same overall size as the G19. Guns of this size are about the smallest I would trust in .45 caliber, however. If you don't mind dropping down to .40 caliber, your choices are much broader, e.g., Kahr K or MK40, Glock 27, etc.

 

[KarlG]

I have an AMT Backup in 45 ACP. It is very particular with magazines. I only have one that works (and I own many). It carries a lot of love in a small package, but I find it difficult to get range time with it because it is so uncomfortable to shoot. I believe that any gun in 45 ACp that is that small will be equally hurtful to shoot.

I think the AMT is a very clever design that was poorly executed. There are so few parts, that there is not much to malfunction. It is so simple. It is also so small. There is very little size difference between the AMT and my Kahr MK9.

 

[Higgins]

KarlG, or others with AMT .45's, can you clarify when you say it is cleverly designed? I was thinking it is just a small variety of the Browning tilt-to-lock design. Am I incorrect? Thanks.

 

[Snowdog]

The revamped Taurus PT-145 Millennium Pro seems to be a winner. The previous problems that plagued the first PT-145 seem to have been addressed from what I've heard.

This has been on my list for a while now. I believe I'll pick one up after I finish my WWII mania (K31, M38 Arisaka and Carcano).

A serious 10+1 carry option

 

[James Bondrock]

I don't own one, but ...

KarlG, or others with AMT .45's, can you clarify when you say it is cleverly designed? I was thinking it is just a small variety of the Browning tilt-to-lock design.

The breech locking system is the least of its problems, from what I have read. A problem that everyone complained about was its trigger pull, often as much as 20 lbs. Try to get off even one accurate shot with a pull like that. Also, it shares a problem inherent to all the tiny .45s (IMO): the slide moves much faster than the magazine can push the heavy cartridges up, resulting in feeding problems. I would recommend a 9mm if you want to go to this small of a gun.

 

[racenutz]

The breech locking system is the least of its problems, from what I have read. A problem that everyone complained about was its trigger pull, often as much as 20 lbs.

Yep the trigger pull on the one I had while it was fairly smooth had to be at least 20lbs, it was so bad me wife was unable to pull the trigger at all.

Another thing I remember about it was the recoil was different from any other handgun I've ever fired. It pushed back hardly at all but torqued like a mo fo.

 

[Pointblank2K]

I don't know how hard these are to get anymore but I bought a Star M.45 with a 3 inch barrel and that sucker is accurate as heck...and heavy too (only drawback, other than parts are hard to find) it is an extremely accurate .45 and VERY small...it's the one I keep loaded in the house.
PB2K

 

[mini14jac]

Doh!

 

[mini14jac]

The Patriot used to get good reviews, but it's made by Cobra now, and I haven't heard much about it.
Imagine a single stack KelTec P11 in .45 acp.
Sells for less than $300 around here.
I've read that recoil is a bear though.

I just got a Colt Defender.
22.5 oz. empty.
They get high marks for reliability, accuracy, and shootability.
It's not quite as small as a PM9, but it fits the same leather.

 

[JayGee]

Kimber also makes a .45 ACP with a 3" barrel and a compact frame, about 25oz (www.kimberamerica.com), Ultra Carry. I have no idea how it performs. I've got the Compact CDPII version with 4" barrel and the same compact frame-about 28 oz (ss slide and aluminum frame). Single action 1911. It's a delight to shoot, but I've had some reliability probs with mine (I've heard I'm in the minority).

 

[roo_ster]

AMT .45 DAO

I bought one when they first came out for $400...before AMT went out of business, they went for $240. It was my second CCW.

No doubt, the trigger pull was long & heavy, tho not as long as a Kel-tec P40. Mine was pretty smooth. That trigger pull can be worked down to around 8#, with a replacement mainspring and a heavier recoil spring, if you want to work at it.

Mine was 100% reliable with hardball, would not feed target SWC, and would feed most 230gr HP. I generally stoke it with hardball & don't worry about it, as I did not expect any HP to expand from such a short BBL.

Its design IS simple & elegant, BTW. Take the time to field strip it & find out.

The recoil is not as bad as some: S&W 640 w/ .357 125gr, Kel-tec P40 w/ .40 180gr are worse.

It would point-shoot to COM out to 10m, no problem. Also, it is accurate enough to drop steel plates 4/5 shots, last time I tried. The problem is the sighting gear is minimal.

I eventually replaced it with my Kel-tec P40, cause it was lighter (15 vs 25oz) had sights, and had greater capacity (9+1 vs 5+1). I still carry it upon occasion, though.

No other comparable weapons exist in .45ACP, I do believe.

 

[Sean Smith]

I've shot the AMT Backup a bit. Like most AMT products, many of them are unreliable junk. Also, they have terrible triggers, poor accuracy, and the slide can bite you.

Unfortunately, few really small .45 ACP designs are consistently reliable.

I'd only recommend a PT-145 to somebody I didn't like. I saw 1 have 3 different major mechanical failures on 3 different trips to the range.

 

[armoredman]

Semmerling.

 

[carpettbaggerr]

Except the Semmerling is even more expensive, and not really an autoloader. If you got the bucks though......

American Derringer is making them again. MSRP $2660.

 

[happyguy]

My AMT .45 Backup has been riding in my body armor holster for the last 20 years. But it isn't my primary weapon.

It has been 100% reliable with everything I've fed it since I polished the feed ramp right after acquiring it. I also normally keep mine loaded with FMJ.

The trigger pull on mine is very very smooth and very very heavy.

At 7 yds and under I can quickly empty the mag into a paper plate with the emphasis on quickly. The gun indexes perfecly for me and transiitioning from one target to another is a breeze.

There is nothing on the weapon to snag or poke. It is designed to be carried close.

Personally I think it would be great if someone would update the design. I my opinion, all that needs to be done is add semi-preloaded striker ala the Keltec P32 (this would greatly reduce the trigger pull), add an American style magazine release, and some low profile Novak sights.

Like a lot of weapons, it has a lot to recommend it, as well as some glaring limitations.

Regards,
Happyguy

 

[seeker_two]

I've used my dad's Taurus PT-145. Nice gun & very reliable, but trigger is heavy (I liked, my dad didn't).

The latest issue of American Rifleman announced that Springfield is bringing out the XD Compact in .40S&W. If it's as good as the 9mm, it will be a winner.

(Hope a .45 isn't far behind... )

 

[Badger Arms]

As a general Taurus hater, I think I'll still vote for the PT-145. It's just such a compact and ergonomic design, I'd try one and wring it out to be sure it's not a lemon before you trust your life with it. We're talking at least 2-400 rounds.

 

[ajacobs]

If only kahr would hurry up and get out the k45 or better yet a k-10

 

[James Bondrock]

If Kahr should ever bring out a .45 pistol, it will not be as small as a K, MK or PM series, let alone an AMT Backup. Expect such a gun to be closer to the T series in size. As for the Semmerling, I would not pay $26.60 for it, let alone $2,660. It isn't even an autoloader. You have to hand cycle the slide -- in a forward direction -- for every shot.