christcorp said:5. Then there's the chrome barrel thing. Melonite is good, but not as good as chrome lined. It goes; 1) Steel 2) Chrome Moly 3) Melonite 4) chrome lined. Some say that melonite is almost as good as chrome lined. Well, ALMOST is relative. If you don't shoot a lot of rounds, then melonite is ALMOST as good. If you shoot a lot; e.g. 5,000-10,000 rounds a year, then chrome lined is better. It's about 30% more durable. And don't believe the "We shot 170,000 rounds in a test..." crap. 25,000-35,000 is about the number of rounds in a chrome lined barrel. Depending on the ammo. About then, you should be looking at a new barrel if you want any decent accuracy. With melonite, it's closer to 15,000-22,000 rounds. Again; for the person shooting 1000-2000 rounds per year, no problem. For the person shooting 5,000-10,000 rounds per year, you're looking at a considerable savings by having a chrome lined.
Again; nothing wrong with Melonite. But if you are a mega-shooter, and shoot 5,000-10,000 rounds a year, a chrome lined barrel is better for you. Again; you have to realize what you want the gun to do for you. If you used the gun for what it was designed for; SHOOTING PEOPLE AT/UP TO 100+/- yards; and practicing for that; then a chrome lined barrel is way more than accurate enough. Even the Mil-Standard is for Chrome Lined.For me, I find the melonite type finish to be the best option of the bunch. You can take a quality chrome moly barrel that is a bit more accurate than a chrome lined barrel and keep accuracy quite a bit longer than a bare chrome moly or SS barrel. A quality chrome moly barrel will shoot very close to a quality SS barrel. Toss on a finish that makes it last twice as long and it's a very smart choice for many shooters. Personally I'd love a Wilson blank finished by WOA and the nitride coated. Much longer lasting than without and a much better shooter than chrome lined. Its a great compromise for someone who is looking for an accurate barrel that will last a long time. Though I will say this is all more on the idea of Melonite and not saying that S&W has or hasn't made a good shooter out of these barrels.
Already been addressed, and you're inflating that number massively. It's actually $18 for single shield, and $23 for double shield at Brownells. Here's a listing for some very nice surplus M4 handguards for $10 - http://www.gunrunners.com/index.php?a=2&b=25353. It doesn't have heat shields on the forearm grips. If you don't shoot a lot, no big deal. If you shoot a couple hundred rounds at an outing, you'll find yourself spending $50-$75 for a new set of forearm grips with shielding.
To quote myself from post #444, The sights are also pretty cheap. If you don't mind, it's not a problem. If you're going to spend money on new sights, you're going to spend at least the $100 you saved on getting the sport.
The rear sight is a virtual copy of the standard rear sight on LMT rifles. As noted above, it's a good quality piece. The front sight is the same F height FSB seen on countless other high end rifles - see quote above if you think S&W is using a cheap FSB on this rifle. If you just don't like the rear sight, a MagPul MBUS is $60 from a host of online sources. The Daniel Defense A1.5 fixed rear sight is of superb quality, and it's only $65 - that's a far cry from the $100 you're claiming.So, after pounding on the FSB, installing a new free float handguard set, and monkeying with the rear sight; I was sure my zero would be off. I returned to the local indoor range to reset my 25m point blank zero. The zero was still dead on. Pounding on the FSB pins like I did would have knocked the windage off if this rifle wasn't put together as well as it is. Running the rear sight elevation drum up, and then back down would have knocked the elevation off if S&W was supplying a cheap rear sight to cut costs. Neither happened - the rifle held zero. This is just another demonstration of how well S&W building this $600 rifle.
See post #8 for link to US Army study. The ferritic nitrocarburized achieved 3/4 the durability of barrels that had a Stellite front third lining, and hard chrome lined remainder; under full auto belt fed firing. Stellite is far harder than chrome, and the front third Stellite lining is used in M2 HMG bbls. The chrome moly bbls. made 1/3 the round count of the Stellite / hard chrome hybrid lined bbls at best, and about 1/10 the round count on average. Take away the Stellite front third, and go to all hard chrome; and the difference between ferritic nitrocarburizing & chrome lining will likely close even further. Unlined / untreated chrome moly bbls aren't even in the same league as the two most durable options.5. Then there's the chrome barrel thing. Melonite is good, but not as good as chrome lined. It goes; 1) Steel 2) Chrome Moly 3) Melonite 4) chrome lined. Some say that melonite is almost as good as chrome lined. Well, ALMOST is relative. If you don't shoot a lot of rounds, then melonite is ALMOST as good. If you shoot a lot; e.g. 5,000-10,000 rounds a year, then chrome lined is better. It's about 30% more durable. And don't believe the "We shot 170,000 rounds in a test..." crap. 25,000-35,000 is about the number of rounds in a chrome lined barrel. Depending on the ammo. About then, you should be looking at a new barrel if you want any decent accuracy. With melonite, it's closer to 15,000-22,000 rounds. Again; for the person shooting 1000-2000 rounds per year, no problem. For the person shooting 5,000-10,000 rounds per year, you're looking at a considerable savings by having a chrome lined.
Again, chrome moly isn't event in the same league as ferritic nitrocarburizing. Calling a Melonite bbl. a cheap compromise, and equivalent to untreated chrome moly is a joke. Don't forget, this isn't just a run of mill bbl that's been Melonited either - it's a T/C manufactured 5R bbl. Those bbls, untreated, have proven themselves incredibly accurate in the Venture & Icon rifles. Let some Sport owners get some long range testing in, and we'll see about accuracy.If you want the BEST ACCURACY, go with a stainless steel barrel. But you're going to replace it much sooner. And you need to take extra care with it so it doesn't corrode/rust. If you shoot a lot, then get chrome lined. it lasts the longest. If you want a cheap compromise, you go with chrome moly or melonite.
I'm defending the M&P Sport because someone (S&W in this case) has built a very high quality AR type rifle at $600 street price
All M&P-15s (including the Sport) use 4140 steel for their bbls. If anyone is concerned with ultimate durability they should look strongly at Daniel Defense or Bravo Company, who offer barrels which are cold hammer forged from MIL-B-11595E steel. Noveske, who uses M249 SAW bbl blanks with hard chroming twice as thick as M4/M16 chrome lining would be an even better choice. If I shoot out the bbl. on my Sport I'll replace it with a DD CHF bbl. (like the one on my DD M4 V1). Some folks also want to shoot 75 gr and heavier bullets, which 1:7 and 1:8 twist bbls. are better suited for than 1:9 twist bbls.But for the person who is not the average shooter, who shoots a lot more, I think the Chrome Lined models are a better choice. If you can get an OR or a standard M&P15 on sale; PLUS can get one of the yearly rebates, and can get the M&P15 for $650, "Like I did", then I think that's the better deal. But head to head, for the average shooter, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the sport.
I was the one who wasn't clear enough. Those prices I quoted were for a complete pair of handguards with the heat shields; not a heat shield to put into the handguards, as my previous wording made it seem.For clarification: I was quoting the price of replacing the forearm grips, not just adding heat shields.
As for sights, I was quoting my needs. I didn't have a need for a rifle with sights. I have plenty. I use optics; mainly red-dots. I want to be able to either have NO FRONT SIGHT, or at least a folding front. The sport wouldn't allow that for me.
That's intellectually dishonest. You're stating that the Sport needs new sights, which it doesn't. Then you compare it to the M&P-15 OR, which includes neither sights, nor an optic. You ignore that you'll need to spend at least that same $100 to get sights on the OR, if not more more for a decent optic. So, the real math is: M&P Sport on sale for $550 + $0 for sights = $550 vs. M&P OR for $750 - $100 rebate check + $100 for sights (or more for optic) = $750 minimum. For the record, I still think that's a great price, and a great value on the M&P OR.4, The sights are also pretty cheap. If you don't mind, it's not a problem. If you're going to spend money on new sights, you're going to spend at least the $100 you saved on getting the sport.
From a fellow veteran (4 years USAF), Thank you for your service.Military. Retired after 21 years. I was trained on the M4/M16. My purpose for one, and what I expect from it, is obviously different than some people here. That's cool.
Don't know how much or little of the entire post was pointed to me, but look at the title of the rifle. M&P Sport. Makes me think this rifle was intended for sport. I find your post a bit condescending to be honest. Enjoy what you shoot. No need to be a jerk to those who are interested in something else. For someone who's looking for a heavy use combat rifle, this isn't it. For someone who is looking for a budget accurate fun rifle with a bit of longevity, this fits well. It's nothing more or less than what it is. It has it's target customer, and those aren't people looking to abuse the absolute snot out of a rifle.christcorp said:Sorry, but anyone who starts mentioning "MOA" in a forum post, automatically turns me off from caring what they say. They automatically tells me that they aren't looking at the rifle for what it was designed for, but rather as some sport/competition gun.
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1 - Magpul CTR buttstock
2 - Free float quad rail
3 - Some kind of optic (not sure what yet)
4 - Upper receiver with FA and dust cover (maybe)
5 - Complete upper in 6.8
Melonite (others call it QPQ, Nitro Carborized, Tennifer, and WASP) does more than harden the bore from wear, it is also a corrosion inhibitor. A melonite barrel appears blued rather than the phosphate coating of most AR barrels.
Those that have freefloat forearms, when is the last time that you removed yours and wiped down the exterior of the barrel?
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I had one stoppage around the 50 round mark where it failed to cycle the bolt far enough to catch the next round out of the magazine. I'm not sure what caused the one failure, but it never happened again.
could be the mag follower tilting. what kind of mag did it happen with?