So a Nut walks in my building and starts shooting what to do?

[Master Blaster]

The title pretty much says it all, the recent Seattle incident (please dont go off topic here), got me thinking that most folks really have no idea what to do if this happens. I serve on the newly formed department emergency planning commitee at work. The group was formed to come up with a plan for disasters of varrying scope and durration. Our Department may have to care for displaced minors like in katrina, or move 300 Juvenile delinquents to new quarters in a disaster. We are also charged with starting the building emergency planning process which would also cover things like fires and floods. We are writting a plan for a department that has 1500 employees at several sites with varrying security. On thing I have brought up at our work sessions is that we dont have a plan or any training as to how to respond if a disgruntled Client comes into our building and starts shooting. The social workers I work with have differing levels of self defense awareness. Some are even former police and probation officers.

So what to do if this happens in a busy office building??
Where can I get training materials on security awareness, developing a building plan, training employees.

Recognize that folks arent going to be carrying, and in fact my permit restricts my carring at work because the halfway houses for juvenile offenders, as well as the youth detention center, and our secure rehabilitation program, are on the same campus as my office building.

Any advice or online resources would be appreciated.

 

[XavierBreath]

If I were tasked with this assignment, I think I would try to find an established written protocol at a hospital, school, or a courthouse and tailor it to my needs. Your local sheriff's department might be a good resource.

In the event of an actual shooting, nobody is going to be checking the Policy & Procedure Manual anyway. Everyone will be doing whatever it takes to survive. No manual can address every concievable scenerio. By their very nature, they must remain general.

The P&P will be questioned for adequacy later, after the fact. It might even be used as a basis of several lawsuits. Make certain you have established irrefutable references. Emphasize preservation of life during the event, not heroism to stop the event, and not what can be done beforehand to prevent the event. Anything in writing to prevent the event will reappear in court. Heroism will appear on it's own. You cannot mandate heroism.

 

[hso]

Some facilities will treat this situation the same as an onsite terrorist threat. I'm not sure that response is the best considering most workplace shootings are focused on the people that the loonatic thinks harmed them in some way instead of the general workers.

The situation you describe could trigger a general evacuation followed by an accountability effort. A general lockdown with sheltering in place would be the alternate response.

If you had site security that was armed, the process would change to a general lockdown with shelter in place while armed sedurity responded to the threat. Alternately, lockdown with zone evacuation while the armed security responded would be appropriate.

If do you have armed security at any of the sites then check with any DOE, DOD, or other government facility head of security for assistance in planning.

 

[gunsmith]

I was working unarmed security

in downtown San Francisco, I was told by my boss during a meeting
with building reps (citi corp) that I was supposed to ask the potential
gunman to "please do not enter building" and to note what kind of gun he was carrying. I said being an unarmed guard means that when I see a gunman, that means I run, period!
My co workers laughed and the boss and citi corp reps were not pleased at all.

I carried anyway, nobody knew.

Bur in the facility you work at, there is probably a metal detecor so that's not an option.

Armed guards at entrances and a remote control locks on bullet proof doors?

 

[SomeKid]

Unless you have family there, leave. Abandon the sheep to the wolves. Now, if you are in danger, shoot back.

 

[tellner]

Run if I can. Hide and return fire if I can't.

 

[evan price]

Get out. Stay safe. Cover your six. Return fire if trapped. Be mindful of the fact the police will probably receive a "worker with a gun killing people" call... so you with your company ID and your CCW may be misinterpreted to be the perpetrator.

 

[Cosmoline]

Run away if possible, remembering concealment and cover. If you can't escape, try to kill them from concealment and cover. Give no warning, do not attempt to disarm the shooter or reason with them. Be sneaky, be ruthless. For example, if you come out and see them walking down the hall away from you to the left, shooting, you'll have to decide if you can safely make an exit to the right or fight it out. If you can't make a safe exit, draw and empty the handgun at their back, giving no warning no announcement no nothing. Use your doorway as concealment.

SO MANY PEOPLE in these circumstances say "stop" or try to talk the shooter down. And that's how they die.

 

[whm1974]

I said being an unarmed guard means that when I see a gunman, that means I run, period!
My co workers laughed and the boss and citi corp reps were not pleased at all.

Why corparations expect so much out of those that get paid very little?

I don't mean to be insulting, but I'm under the impression that most guards are wanna be's that couldn't pass the test. Or can't do any other jobs.

-Bill

 

[bouis]

I honestly think you'd be better off having no plan at all, for liability and safety concerns.

I wouldn't presume to say I know what the accepted procedure is but I imagine it involves doing exactly what the bad guy says and hoping he doesn't kill you. Can you imagine how it would play out afterwards if official workplace policy was to resist and someone was killed?

Personally, I'd run; but if I couldn't, I'd fight, and I'd do it just like Cosmoline says.

 

[SomeKid]

whm,

I myself work as an unarmed security guard. It is a good college job. I have met a few wanna-bes in this job, but mostly it just guys wanting to get by.

I could use myself and my co-workers as examples, but that gets way OT.

gunsmith is actually right, they expect us (after paying us somewhere in the area of 6-8 an hour) to be just this side of cops, and sometimes more. (example: The power goes out in a room, so instead of flipping the breakers back on and returning to work, they come find me.)

If there was a shooting, would I respond by confronting the angry nut? (Insert words that Art would track me down and kill me for here) NO! I would wager your rent-a-badges got the same 'be a good witness' training I did. You have one person to depend on, and that is yourself.

I honestly think you'd be better off having no plan at all, for liability and safety concerns.

Wow. Sage advice there. Do not prepare for something you think may happen, there is a strategy!

Seriously though, always prepare. Every room you go in, you should have a plan for. A little mind-game I played with myself when I had free time, was to ask myself, if a nut attacked with (weapon) from (place) what would I do now? Aside from keeping me entertained, it did succeed in giving me some thoughts as to where was good cover and concealment.

 

[RedAlert]

Hard to make the equasion work out.

If any person who was not a properly trained law officer was to pull out a gun and in the stress of the situation miss the shooter and hit an innocent bystander then he/she would be forever hounded by lawyers.

If you did hit the shooter and only wound him/her then you can be sure you would be sued for violating their civil rights.

I hate the situation. Even if Iwere armed at the time, I don't know how I would react. That is the main reason I never carry concealed except while hunting or traveling to the target range.

RDF

 

[SomeKid]

If

Well, since you don't like the chance that something bad might happen, you could always die. 'If' doesn't really matter then, does it?

 

[Boom-stick]

With incidents like this actually happening over there in the US (and sometimes over here??) I'm surprised ballistic shields aren't stored next to the fire extingishers

Un-wittingly, I let a gunman into my old work place whilst on my way to a dentist appointment, I even held the door open for him, I work in Real Estate and our office was in an old bank, the BG thought it was still a bank??
He didn't shoot anyone but I have no idea how I'd have handled the situation.

(My other 'cool' idea would be for an adpated Haylon system that releases Anesthetic gas, instruct folk to 'break glass incase incase of emergency' and it'll knock everyone out until the PD turns up.)


PS.I know these ideas are flawed, they're just ideas.

 

[mbt2001]

"Guys walks up to a building and starts shooting, what to do..."

Duck...

 

[Roadwild17]

Where I work, we are told to "Stay Still and Duck, the security force is responsible for the safety of the equipment"

The sad thing is some of the equipment or materials ARE worth a human life.

 

[Chupacabra]

So a Nut walks in my building and starts shooting what to do?

Get out! As quickly as possible!

At least, that is my plan. The official plan is for everyone to find a lockable room and hide until the cavalry arrives. I don't know about anyone else, but I don't want to willingly corner myself. Especially since I don't have a way to shoot back.

 

[ilbob]

I don't mean to be insulting, but I'm under the impression that most guards are wanna be's that couldn't pass the test. Or can't do any other jobs.

I worked security while going to school a long while back, so maybe things have changed a bit, but I suspect not much. My recollections are:

5% wannabes (stupid and scary people for the most part)
20% students (many night time security jobs were ideal for studying)
25% between jobs (good guys mostly but won't last long)
25% part timers/second jobs
15% can't find anything better
10% actually liked it

I was doing contract agency work, and bottom of the barrel type work at that. I suspect other security areas might turn out a little different.

Typically the security guard was paid less then the janitor who did not even speak English. That should tell you something. Everything else being equal, I would have taken the job cleaning toilets and made a couple bucks an hour more.

 

[ilbob]

I vote for doing whatever it takes to survive. I suspect that the official plan will be very poorly thought out, and be a one size fits all scheme that will probably serve no useful purpose at all in a real emergency.

Most cases, I say get the heck out if you can do so safely.

Hiding is a good idea if you can't escape, but you need to find a good spot to hide in that at least gives you some chance to avoid detection. This is not as easy as you might think.

The next to the worst thing is to allow yourself to be captured. I fully expect one of the next waves of terrorism will be hostage taking in large buildings with periodic murders of hostages.