something I've always wondered about AR vs. AK...

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tirod said:
it sprays hot fouled gases back into the highly technical and tight fitting chamber/star cluster which pushes the bolt rearward and cycles the action.
No, my example is not flawed. A blow back action does this. It's the only way it can work.
No sir.
The AR15 design has plumbing that causes exhaust gas to be directly channeled into the bolt carrier group.

No "blowback" gun in the world has such plumbing, and as physical laws can't be broken, high pressure goes to low pressure by the most expedient path (which i'm very sure does not include the bolt or bolt carrier of the blowback operated gun).
tirod said:
The AR15 is unique in that is recycles hot nasty exhaust gas directly back in to it's bolt carrier group.

It doesn't recycle it, it uses the pressure to unlock the bolt. The cartridge operates the action by direct pressure on the bolt face, like any other semi auto.
It doesn't? Are you sure?

recycle:
• cause to repeat a cycle
• reclaimable: capable of being used again
• use again after processing; "We must recycle the cardboard boxes"
• The practice of sorting and collecting waste materials for new use
• Minimizing waste generation by recovering and reprocessing waste into usable products that might otherwise become waste
 
nalioth,

tirod's understanding is mistaken. I think he has the cycle confused with the HK roller locking systems, where gases do indeed flow back through the chamber.

But I still don't think recycle is the right word, and I think the only real issue with the gasses coming back into the receiver are caused by military units that expect weapons to be white glove clean.
 
the purpose of the propellent is to push the bullet out of the barrel. Using the gas for anything else would be recylcing by your bullets 2,3 and 5
 
When a cartridge is fired in a blowback action, gas pressure builds, pushing both the bullet and the cartridge case. The bullet goes out the barrel, the cartridge case directly forces the bolt back. As soon as movement has developed clearance between it and the chamber, gas pressure flows around it into the action.

When the gas pressure is channeled into the bolt carrier group, the carrier moves backward as the gas pressure develops. As it moves, the cam pin and cam rotate the bolt unlocking it. Within an inch of rearward movement, the gas key and tube disconnect - and gas is already flowing around the cartridge into the action.

Because the cartridge is pushing against the face of the bolt, the upper contains a channel that prevents the bolt from rotating back - which would jam the lugs against the barrel extension. Examination of uppers shows the cam pin is forced against one side of the channel with force, enough to create pitting and wear that removes anodizing. The Army TM requires that the channel be given "generous lube" in order to reduce friction. POF designed the roller cam pin for the same reason, to reduce friction - caused by pressure from the cartridge case pushing the bolt carrier back.

I don't have a problem with hot, dirty, nasty gas doing the work - what is humorous is that so many think other guns don't do the same thing, and that the AR is somehow prone to debilitating buildup of residue. That strictly depends on the powder used - which was incorrectly specified and corrected decades ago. If significant quantities of residue can coat the bolt carrier group and stop the action cycling, how much more the piston and cylinder on that type? Especially when pistons are only 5 to 10% the size of a bolt carrier group?

Well, in the day, Ball powder did cause problems in M1's and M14's. If hot, nasty, dirty gas is directed anywhere, it will affect those components with the same quantities and force. Pistons aren't immune to the same physics.

If anything, it's been proven for 45 years that the hot, dirty, nasty gases do a good job of making the AR work, as long as the operator understands how to maintain the weapon with it's unique characteristics. DI operation doesn't make the bolt red hot - if anything, the Colt video of sustained firing debunks the whole problem of hot, dirty, nasty gas, as the weapon suffers barrel and gas tube failure - not bolt failure from high temperatures.

The AR suffers failures to feed from primarily bad magazines and bad or damaged ammunition far more than being unclean. It's not a problem of hot, dirty, nasty gasses being directed into the bolt carrier, it's a problem of cheap magazines, damaged mil surplus rejects, and poor operator practices. Keep it lubed, it keeps running, regardless of those who insist that it conform to the mythology perpetuated by non users.
 
bottomline the AR-15 is a POS.:D

In the Armed forces its not as big a deal if your rifle jams once in a while because presumably you will have others to back you up. For a civilian when you have one rifle your counting on when it really counts go for something reliable the AK-47!
 
It has been my experience that people who say AKs are ultra-reliable haven't ever run AKs very hard, and definitely haven't had a chance to see how well those much-discussed rifles that have spent "30 years in the hands of goat herding peasants with no maintenance" or whatever.

Not saying the AK isn't a robust design, but it can and does fail when you push it hard, especially if it's neglected as well.
 
It has been my experience that people who say AKs are ultra-reliable haven't ever run AKs very hard, and definitely haven't had a chance to see how well those much-discussed rifles that have spent "30 years in the hands of goat herding peasants with no maintenance" or whatever.

Not saying the AK isn't a robust design, but it can and does fail when you push it hard, especially if it's neglected as well.

i will keep my not-ultra reliable ak...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIO-Ct_VJvM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEtLAo-4YeA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJM8asnj6JY
 
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