Springfield '03

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Markings on stock behind triggerguard:

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Rear peep sight & bolt handle:
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Rear view of peep sight & bolt (bolt handle has "N.S." stamped in it)
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Barrel is marked "S.A. 12-28"
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View of receiver markings which are visible:

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One other question, since this was bought at a pawn shop, the value I paid may not be the actual value.

What value should I list this at on my insurance? (rough estimate on worth is fine)
 
The serial numbers which are 8xx,xxx or above had the much better heat-treating process, from what my retired Gun Guru told me.
He is a very knowledgeable, former competitive shooter/reloader.

I don't know where these numbers are found on the Internet.

I just saw two such Springfields at the show in Germantown, by Memphis. One had a number in the 1xx,xxx range, but did not check the other.
The list price of the verified low number rifle is about $800.
 
$800? Bejeebus. I guess I made out alright. I paid $400+8% sales tax.

(Mental note; continue shopping for guns at pawn shops.)
 
Kind of my thoughts, since it's not original and has been "sporterized" it's not worth as much as if it were 100% original.

Then again, the sporterization that was done appears to be very solid work. I'm not sure about bedding - haven't removed the stock to check. However, whoever owned this rifle before took GOOD care of it.

Pawn broker said he bought it in an estate sale. He's an old friend of mine, and when I had an FFL we did a LOT of horse trading. (I kept him well supplied on reloading components when they dried up, for instance). So we've got a deal where I can get things pretty much for what he paid, maybe a small markup, but on this rifle he knocked off $50 without me even ASKING him to.

I have a standing order with him now on any antique rifles he runs across in estate sales, to call me first, before sticking them on the shelf. :)
 
Action is from about 1905. Barrel made in 1928. Bolt is nickel steel and therefore later than 1926. P.O. Ackley said that the best thing you could do for a low number '03 was to fit a nickel steel bolt with proper headspace. So you may hope that the barrel and bolt were replaced at the same time and fitted to each other.

Stock has two P proof marks indicating overhaul... of the rifle that stock was on at the time, not necessarily THIS rifle.

Receiver sight is great for shooting but knocks any collector value in the head, especially with the ladder sight removed.
 
Thanks Jim! Excellent info! Exactly what I was looking to discover with the pics.

I'm going to load up some rounds for it and take it to the range, perhaps next weekend or the one after (depends on work, and other factors). The desire to send rounds downrange out of a 106-107 year old rifle, has completely overruled and negated any fear I have of pulling the trigger.

Besides, I don't like having any firearms sitting around which I haven't verified are zeroed. ;-)
 
P.O. Ackley said that the best thing you could do for a low number '03 was to fit a nickel steel bolt with proper headspace.

No, the best thing you can do is not fire these things.

Lets say you have one of those vintage cars without safety belts and air bags, and Ole P.O said the “best thing” you could do is carry a pillow between your body and the steering wheel, does that mean you should drive like a maniac?

I am not a fan of these old rifles. They have poor metallurgy, and known process control problems, and the 03's don't handle gas well.

Below are the posts on a blown up single heat treat receiver. First the Gunbroker auction description and pictures, with posts from the Gunbroker bidder who won the auction.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=190985391

This item is a Springfield Armory model 1903 rifle that is a good wall hanger. Its been hanging on the wall of the shop for about 22 years. It is that bad a shape it has been blown up. This is a low ser # of 236162, I had this hanging on the wall to show people what would happen if they shot one of the old low ser # rifles with modern ammo. Look at the pictures to see that this is NOT a shoot able rifle. The guy that shot this rifle spend 4 days in the hospital getting metal out of his eye & metal out of his arms. No FFL required. I will send out a email at the close of the bidding, please copy & send back with payment. I’m selling out a gun shop that was in business for over 30 years. More parts & pieces to come. The shop did a lot of general repair & that’s why all the different parts. This and a bunch more that will be coming up for sale were in 4 other old gun shop’s that I’ve bought out over the last 31 year’s.

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http://www.jouster.com/forums/showthread.php?14045-Blown-03-Receiver-From-GB

1. Blown '03 Receiver From GB
For those of you just coming in, I got this off of GB more than a month ago - http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=190985391

Removing the bolt first was a hopeless cause. I have only removed a few barrels beforehand, and this one was really stuck. Removing it ended up breaking the "ramp" around the chamber. Please excuse my elementary terminology.

The rim around the face of the bolt was also blown off. I'll show pics of all this in time, but here are some of the cartridge case next to that of fired .30-06. To me, it looks like the failed case has a "belt", like that of a magnum. The rest of the case seems to be about the same size as a normal -06.

The area around the primer seems "deep" to me, but all of this maybe the result of the excessive pressure, I don't know.

I just shoot recreationally, so hopefully some of you more serious shooters can figure this out.


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I believe this rifle shows several characteristics of the 03 rifle. The first is that it does not handle gas well: wood chunks removed from the sides of the stock. Paul Mauser put design features in the M98 to protect the shooter, in the 03 gas goes straight down the firing pin and out the back. In this incident the bolt handle was blown off due to the brittle plain carbon steels used. Gas escapes down the left side of the action, and it appears the cutoff was blown off.

So while the receiver ring is intact, escaping gas broke pieces of metal and wood off, injuring the unfortunate shooter.

Another characteristic is the brittle failures you see. Plain carbon steels, which are used in most of these pre WW2 era rifles, when they fail, they fragment. This incidentally includes the double heat receivers which are also made from plain carbon steels.

Alloy steels are stronger if properly heat treated and modern breeching designs protect the shooter much better in these catastrophic events.

This is not just a condemnation of the material used in low number Springfields, this also applies to any of those early military bolt actions. All of these early rifles are made from plain carbon steels. Fine for carrying the design loads, but break in a brittle fashion from overpressure events.

Shooting these things is a risk. In the late 20's, the Army started destroying these receivers when the rifle came back for rebuild. Personally I think it was a criminal Army decision to keep a population of known defective rifles in service and only remove the receiver when it came back for rebuild. Back then a $40.00 rifle was worth more than the arms, hands, and eyes of a service man, today, things are different.
 
I would want to try it out also.

I suggest you look at know low pressure loads for pistols. Check the pistol loads at : http://www.hodgdon.com/

I had an 1884 Springfield Trap Door in 45-70 and went with cast lead slugs and a light load listed in my Lyman Book (they didn't stabilize, but I did shoot it. soft steel an all).

Good luck on you loads and a great piece of history.
 
That's looks like an over load cartridge

That's looks like an over load cartridge when the case head fail and dumped a lot of pressure into the receive. I've seen this same thing twice at the gun club over the years where guys had used the wrong powder in their reloads. Oops..... one was a model 700 and the other a Sporter 7.7 Jap. Both had split stocks blown out mag wells and wedged shut actions.. We got them open and the brass was just about welded to the bolt heads and chambers.

I've shot Springfield's for years with no problem but a few years back I had a side burned out on a factory loaded round and boy your right the 03 doesn't shield your face nearly as goods as a 98 Mauser. I got sprayed but good with powder and brass specks and hot gas as it came shooting back down the action sides.

My face smarted good for a few days, felt like a second degree burn and it looked like I had a bad case of acne. Brass and powder kept popping out off my skin for weeks.

Ironically last summer I was shooting my K98 and the same thing happened to it shooting old surplus ammo. Lots of smoke and oil on my face and shooting glasses but NO other damage to me or the rifle. I'll still shoot my 03's but I have a lot more respect for what Paul Mauser build. He got it right.......We should have copied more of it features.
 
Personally I feel $400 is to much for a sporterized low number 1903 but thats only my opinion
I also would never fire a low serial 1903, there are good 1903 and 190a3's out there available you just have to look
Be safe
 
I am a fan of the M98 mauser.

As an illustration of some of the safety features that Paul Mauser put in his action, look at the following series of pictures:

Unlike the Springfield, the cocking piece shroud is wide enough to block gas release down the left receiver rail.

The safety lug blocks gas release under the bottom of the bolt.

Notice the flats on the side of the firing pin.

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If you have gas escape into the bolt the firing pin will be blown back. In the M98 action the firing pin snaps back here and the round section plugs up gas release down the firing pin shaft. In a M1903 the gas flow is not blocked and goes straight down the shaft into your eye.

DSCN1349Shaftgasblock.jpg

I have had firing pins, collars, and cocking piece shafts break on my 03 rifles. A firing pin also broke on Jack O’Connor’s 03 sporter. When the 03 firing pin breaks the firing pin tip extends out the bolt face. (Incidentally this is true of most modern actions, all inferior in shooter protection features to the M98). Jack O’Connor’s rifle slamfired out of battery as he closed the bolt almost tearing his thumb off!

Paul Mauser designed his rifle so that the firing pin will not go forward unless the bolt is closed. Even if the firing pin is broken, the shooter is protected from a slamfire. Others have called it a firing pin interlock. Here is how it works.

The front of the firing pin has those shoulders machined into it. There are corresponding cuts inside the bolt. The shoulders have to align with the cuts for the firing pin tip to extend from the bolt.

Here the firing pin is misaligned and is blocked from touching the primer.

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Here the firing pin is aligned and goes all the way forward.

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I have never had a Mauser firing pin break, one action, the previous owner said he had dry fired the thing 50,000 times and shot out the barrel. I replaced the barrel and am still using the same firing pin. A Springfield firing pin will not last that long.

There are many more safety features in the M98, almost all of them ignored in the 03 action design. God knows why, an American Rifleman article showed 1899 or 1900 dated complete M98 rifles that were in the possession of the US Army at the time the 03 was being designed. What Mauser features were copied were from the M96 action.

Stuart Ottesen’s Book “The Bolt Action Vol 1” discusses most of the safety features in the M98 and the lack of them in the 03.

Not to say that a M98 will not blow up. Foolish reloaders have blown plain carbon steel M98’s all to heck, but up to the point of fracture, a M98 will protect a shooter far better than any 03, and most commercial actions on the market.

Supposedly someone chambered a 30-30 in this 30-06 Mauser rifle. I have no idea how someone could do that.

30-30inM98.jpg
 
Historical analysis of the failure rate along with specific serial number ranges ...
http://m1903.com/03rcvrfail/

FWIW, you are not permitted to use a low numbered receiver in a CMP match.

In general, with guns or anything else, it's a good idea to do the homework before the purchase rather than after.
/Bryan
 
The analysis is seriously flawed. Hatcher only published information to 1929 or so, there are pictures of blown up single action 03's after that date on the Springfield Armory website.

This one is in 1932

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Daffy Doc assumes that all 800,000 - 1,000,0000 single heat treat rifles were in use and calculates accident rate accordingly. At some times in the 20's the Army only had 20-50,000 troops and few of them were shooting anything, so the accident rate for rifles in use is much higher than his calculation.

The Army does not release accident reports so Daffy Doc's assumptions that nothing failed post 1929 through WW2, because he can't find records, is 100% bogus.

Daffy Doc is another 03 fan boy justifying his dangerous practices.

Pray you are not one of his patients, you could be one of the 125,000 who die every year due to idiot Doctors and idiot medical care.
 
Interesting stuff.

I've only had one gun blow up on me ("only", as if that's a good thing...). It was an AR 15 pistol - an early Professional Ordinance Carbon 15 (made before Bushmaster bought them out). It wasn't catastrophic to the firearm - bolt broke in two pieces, rest of the firearm was fine. I'm guessing the pistol length gas pressure was too high from the ammo I was using (radway green). It torqued the bolt, causing it to snap in two.

I've seen a mauser handle a ruptured casing before. Friend of mine was shooting his 8mm mauser (Turkish), with some fugly surplus stuff. I was next to him on the firing line, heard a strange sound - not at all like a gunshot, sounded and felt more like someone dropped an M80 off to my side. Look over and he's got black crap on his face and a "deer in the headlights" look on his face.

Shell split up the side and blew the back of the casing out. He was unharmed other than a single piece of metal that was embedded in his forehead right smack between his eyes. Little trickle of blood coming out - don't think the brass ever came out. :)

We had to work at it a bit just to get that ruptured casing out. He didn't shoot it again. Wish we would have taken pictures.

Anyway it was actually pretty impressive, the case totally blew apart yet the rifle still functioned normally, and didn't show any damage at all. Those Mausers are tough!

Not sure what I'll end up doing. If I do shoot it, I will *definitely* check headspacing first. There's enough unsupported cartridge on those '03's as it is. Bad headspacing would just exacerbate the problem. If it's out of spec, I'll just hang it on the wall. If it's in spec, I'll think pretty hard before shooting it.

But knowing me... I probably will. At least once. :)
 
Interesting stuff.

I've only had one gun blow up on me ("only", as if that's a good thing...). It was an AR 15 pistol - an early Professional Ordinance Carbon 15 (made before Bushmaster bought them out). It wasn't catastrophic to the firearm - bolt broke in two pieces, rest of the firearm was fine. I'm guessing the pistol length gas pressure was too high from the ammo I was using (radway green). It torqued the bolt, causing it to snap in two.

I've seen a mauser handle a ruptured casing before. Friend of mine was shooting his 8mm mauser (Turkish), with some fugly surplus stuff. I was next to him on the firing line, heard a strange sound - not at all like a gunshot, sounded and felt more like someone dropped an M80 off to my side. Look over and he's got black crap on his face and a "deer in the headlights" look on his face.

Shell split up the side and blew the back of the casing out. He was unharmed other than a single piece of metal that was embedded in his forehead right smack between his eyes. Little trickle of blood coming out - don't think the brass ever came out. :)

We had to work at it a bit just to get that ruptured casing out. He didn't shoot it again. Wish we would have taken pictures.

Anyway it was actually pretty impressive, the case totally blew apart yet the rifle still functioned normally, and didn't show any damage at all. Those Mausers are tough!

Not sure what I'll end up doing. If I do shoot it, I will *definitely* check headspacing first. There's enough unsupported cartridge on those '03's as it is. Bad headspacing would just exacerbate the problem. If it's out of spec, I'll just hang it on the wall. If it's in spec, I'll think pretty hard before shooting it.

But knowing me... I probably will. At least once. :)
Put the rifle in a lead sled and pull the trigger with a string from a liberal distance.
 
Not sure what I'll end up doing. If I do shoot it, I will *definitely* check headspacing first. There's enough unsupported cartridge on those '03's as it is. Bad headspacing would just exacerbate the problem. If it's out of spec, I'll just hang it on the wall. If it's in spec, I'll think pretty hard before shooting it.

If you are determined to shoot it, then here are my suggestions on risk reduction.

Use only the best brass. Don't use old range pickups, wierd foreign surplus, or old surplus brass that may be brittle from NOx outgassing. A blown case head or brass split in the case head will have unpredictable outcomes.

Measure the headspace of the rifle and set up your dies with a case gage. Excessively sized brass will peen the action as the stuff stretches to the bolt face. Given that these plain carbon steel receivers could be on the brittle side, peening is bad.

Don’t load modern equivalent loads. The 03 used ammunition that pushed a 150 grain bullet at 2700 fps. If you check old American Rifleman data, the pressures on this ammunition was always less than 50 Kpsia, often in the lower 40 Kpsia.

If your rifle has gone through several barrels before it was rebarreled with a 1928 barrel, your action may not have been one of those burnt in the forge shop. Still, it is a plain carbon receiver with poor gas handling characteristics.

The problem is, and always will be, there is no way to non destructively tell a good single heat treat from a bad one.
 
SlamFire;

Pretty much every kind or type of firearm ever made has "kaboomed" for one reason or another.

Big collection of photos here:
http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=56306

Of ALL of those, the Barrett 50 BMG is the one that frightens me the most.

I've shot PLENTY of surplus and internet-sourced remanufactured ammunition through my M95, and the thought has always occurred to me "what happens if this goes wrong?" (Especially as I occasionally let other people, even strangers, shoot the thing)

Life isn't without risk. As much as you'd like to eliminate or reduce risk, the fact remains you cannot wake up and get out of bed in the morning without incurring risk.

I feel much safer shooting a rifle with ammunition that *I* have loaded - even a 106 year old one - than I do driving to work. I live in the country and I've hit 1 deer and had to full-out-engage-ABS brakes at LEAST a half dozen times in the last four years to avoid hitting deer.

I'm far more likely to die from bambi, than I am an '03 springfield. But I still go to work every day, and go grocery shopping, and so on, and so forth. Heck, sometimes I do it on a motorcycle, which is 10,000x more risky. There's a cross on the side of the road on the way to work, less than two miles from here, where a motorcyclist hit a COW. Yes, a damned COW. Got out of the farmer's pasture and was standing in the middle of the road on a blind curve. Motorcyclist couldn't react in time. Killed him instantly.

So ... as grave of a concern people have over '03's, I *do* believe it is a very moderate risk compared to other, normal daily activities I engage in; even some firearm related activities (such as steel pistol matches at our local range, for instance).

Heck, I've even been downrange changing targets at a public range before during a ceasefire on a busy day, when an IDIOT pulled up, unloaded his stuff, and started shooting at some other targets left out there. I had my (then) 5 year old son with me at the time, and we were wearing brightly colored clothing. Two friends of mine had to physically RESTRAIN me from beating the guy senseless. (The RO intervened and kicked the person off the property.)

There's risk in life, and I accept that.

Anyway, off the soapbox.

I *do* appreciate everyone's feedback - I truly do - as it has absolutely been the information I was looking for when I made the original post.

I can now make a completely informed decision on the issue, based on all of the facts. Everyone can sleep well at night - in the unlikely chance that something bad DOES happen, this decision was mine, and mine alone, and made after receiving full disclosure and advice from many people here who are very educated on the subject.

Thank you!

(Slamfire your posts on risk reduction are enlightening, appreciate it)
 
Posted by cfullgraf: It is relatively recently that the suggested restriction was placed on low number M1903 rifles. There is no way to tell if a receiver will let go until it does.

I believe when I got my M1903 from CMP in the late 1999 or 2000, the warning about low serial numbers M1903s was not widely published, if at all. When I learned about it a few years ago, i was relieved that my M1903 is a high number rifle.
Springfield Armory policy was to destroy all low number receivers when they came on for re-barreling, starting in 1918.

Phil Sharpe discussed the problem in The Rifle in America in 1938, and probably before that . Warnings appeared in The American Rifleman in early years, and the old ads all specified low vs high number rifles. Some writers discussed early receivers shattering after a blow from a hammer or even a screwdriver shank.

It is a process problem that cannot be detected and that cannot be corrected, and failure cannot be predicted, or prevented except by not firing the rifle.

See this.

The liklihood of a catastrophic failure may be low, but why risk it?

I have been a Springfield fan alll of my life, and I still have my first Model 1903, which was double heat treated. If I had a low number rifle, I would deactivate it.
 
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