Springfield 1903 a3 questions

[DavidB2]

I am researching the Springfield 1903 a3 rifle. I have an Enfield Mk 4, Mosin- Nagant but am interested in another bolt action MILSURP rifle.

-Can you shoot modern hunting ammo in a 1903 a3?
-How does the recoil compare to the Enfield or Mosin?
-what are the qualities of an accurate a3? (i.e 2 groove vs 4 groove)
-What is a good price for a 1903 a3? I am looking for a shooter not a collector?

 

[tactikel]

Yes, you can shoot any commercial ammo in the '03-A3. Recoil is subjective, the Mosin is lighter and shoots a similar cartridge, to me it has greater felt recoil. Mine is 2 groove, accuracy with commercial ammo is 2-3 MOA, accuracy with cast bullets is outstanding, it shoots 1" at 50 yards with GI sights.

 

[Float Pilot]

If you buy a 1903A3 there are two makers. Remington and Smith Corona. Smith Corona made far fewer, but I own both and find that Smith Corona's have much less quality in their finish machine work. For a shooter I would ALWAYS go with a Remington made 1903A3.

As shooters there is nothing wrong with a standard 1903 My 1903 is much more accurate than the three 1903A3s I currently own. The Marines used 1903s as the basis of their sniper rifles and not the 1903A3 / A4 like the Army. Remington also had a contract to make some 1903s just before WWII started.

I used to have a 1903-A1, it was a hand selected 1903 with a pre-war C style stock and match grade sights. It was VERY accurate.

Another super accurate shooting mil-surp is the m/96 and m/38 Swedish Mausers.

1896 and 1898 US Krag Rifles are also a dream to shoot. I would kill a bus full of nuns with a lead pipe for a Philippine Constabulary Krag rifle.

 

[Steve in PA]

I own a CMP Remington 1903A3.

Yes, you can shoot commercial ammo in the rifle.

Accuracy is excellent, second only to my Swiss K31. This is with open sights at 100 yards.

 

[GBExpat]

I have 5 03A3s, one of them a Smith Corona.

All of them shoot ~2-3MOA with milsurp ball ammo over irons. They can safely shoot modern hunting ammo.

I am a bit recoil-oblivious, but I think that the felt-recoil is maybe a little more with the 03A3 over the Enfield Nº4Mk1 and Mosin-Nagant 91/30.

IMO, the 2-groove/4-groove debate is just wind.

I haven't bought one recently, so I don't have a sense of their current market value.

If I were looking to acquire one I would spend some time on Gunbroker to determine what they are selling for now.

Note, that I said selling for, not what they are listed for.

Also, be aware on those that sell, whether or not the final price has been inflated by a couple of bidders working against each other in the final stretch. I view such winning bids totals with a jaundiced eye.

That said, I think that they are great rifles. I prefer the 03A3 to the 03 because the rear aperture sight is much friendlier to old presbyopic eyeballs.

If I still had my original young-buck eyesight, I would probably prefer the rear sight on the 03 ... which is really nice/capable, if you can actually see well-enough to use it.

Good Luck with your search!

 

[35 Whelen]

I bought on several years ago; a former parade rifle restored to its former glory. The fellow who did this installed a brand new, still in the wrapper, December 1943 production 2-groove barrel. I love the rifle and the aperture rear sight is kind to aging eyes. I've only fired cast loads through mine but it shoots them very, very well almost rivaling my Swiss K-31's.

Last I checked they were selling in the $750 range, some a lot higher, some a little lower.

ETA pictures -





35W

 

[Nature Boy]

My 1903a3. I realize it's not in its original battlefield condition, but it sure makes an accurate (and pretty) hunting rifle. 5 shots at 100. I'm looking forward to doing more load development and really tightening it up

 

[MrBorland]

I am looking for a shooter not a collector

When I was considering a good 03a3 shooter, I was seriously considering a re-built 03a3 offered by Creedmoor Sports (link below).

They're not collectible, and may be out of your price range, but you're essentially buying a new 03a3 with a match barrel, so you wouldn't be buying a rifle with Godknowswhat issues from previous wear and tear.

From what I've read on-line about them, they seem to be getting good reviews.


http://www.creedmoorsports.com/product/1384/Rock-Ridge-Rifles#/tab3

 

[lightning]

I have 2 03A3s. A Smith Corona and a RA.
The recoil isn't bad but the steel butt plate can be a pain. I use a 10X shooting coat.
Accuracy can be amazing.
This is 100 yards off a bench with near max load out of a 4 groove SC. RA 2 groove is comperable.

 

[Acera]

I think that you have a good start to a collection.

Don't forget about a Mauser 1898 and it's variants like the 98k, those are iconic, and can be found for reasonable prices.

However, I would buy the 1903 before he Mauser if it were me. The one I have is a great rifle and more accurate than I am on most occasions.

Reminds me of the old saying about WWI, "The Germans brought a hunting rifle to the war, the Americans brought a target rifle the British brought a battle rifle."

Can never find who said that first. Guess we need to figure out where the Mosin fits in there, tent pole??? LOL.

 

[zb338]

I have a Remington 03A3 and it will shoot around an inch
group (5 shots), if I load match bullets. This is over a bench
rest, of course. My rifle is G.I. except for Lyman peep sights
and a Timney trigger.

Zeke

 

[rodinal220]

Don't let a 2 groove barrel fool ya,plenty accurate.I wouldn't turn my nose up at one.My Remington 1903 A3 is scary accurate with quality 168gr BTHP ammo.Shoots pretty good with M2 ball too!!

 

[Vern Humphrey]

-Can you shoot modern hunting ammo in a 1903 a3?

Yes. Any standard .30-06 ammo is fine.

You may be confusing the M1903A3 here with the M1 Garand. The M1 Garand, being a gas-operated semi-automatic that taps the gas near the muzzle, is very sensitive to muzzle pressure. Shooting full charge loads with slow-burning powder can damage the Op Rod.

-How does the recoil compare to the Enfield or Mosin?

I'm not recoil sensitive, but I would rate it more than the M1917 Enfield -- which is normal, because the M1917 is a much heavier rifle.

-what are the qualities of an accurate a3? (i.e 2 groove vs 4 groove)

The issue of 2-groove versus 4-groove (and 6-groove) has been debated for years, and no one has ever come up with any evidence that the number of grooves makes any difference at all. Expect accuracy of around 2 MOA, plus or minus.

-What is a good price for a 1903 a3? I am looking for a shooter not a collector?

Around $700-800.

 

[Slamfire]

Can you shoot modern hunting ammo in a 1903 a3?

As been said, yes. And I agree with Vern, most of the ammunition warnings concern the Garand and its gas system. The only M1903A3’s that should not be shot under any conditions are the National Ordnance A3’s. These were cast receivers made in the 1960’s and they were junk. National Ordnance bought GI parts and built them around their receivers, they were sold new, I believe, up to the 1970’s. I bought one, did not know what it was. Headspace increased as I shot it because the receiver was soft.

All A3’s were made out of 8620 steel, same steels as the Garand, and the manufacturing technology was vastly improved over the WW1 rifles. Those single heat treat 03’s and double heat treat 03’s were made out of low grade steels that today, are so cheap and inferior, they are used for things like rebar and rail road spikes. The alloy steels used in the A3’s are superior in all respects to the plain carbon steels used in 03’s.

How does the recoil compare to the Enfield or Mosin?

I think the M1903 in all its variations kicks more than either the SMLE, No 4 MkI, or Mosin. The P17 Enfield is a little heavier, but the stock drop restores the kick back to nasty. Hold the rifle firmly in your shoulder and drape your thumb over to the right side of the stock. If you wrap your thumb over the stock, it will bruise your lip during recoil.

what are the qualities of an accurate a3? (i.e 2 groove vs 4 groove)

I have both. It is my opinion that the war time barrels are exactly what you would expect for a war time rifle: made quick with big tolerances. Luck of the draw and sometimes people get an exceptional barrel, (seems everyone has a half MOA barrel!) but these barrels were not intended to be target barrels. Today’s Criterion barrels are vastly superior to these wartime 2 groove or 4 groove barrels. My best four groove A3 is around a two MOA affair. This is based on 20 shot groups, not the usual and useless three shot groups paraded around. My two groove A3 shoots cast bullets better than my 4 groove. None of my cast bullet groups are all that spectacular, because I have not put the time into it, but I think if you plan to shoot cast bullets, the two groove barrel is the better one to get.

What is a good price for a 1903 a3? I am looking for a shooter not a collector?

I don’t know and I don’t want to know. Every time I see one at a gun show, I realize that I can’t afford to replace what I got.

 

[Mike C2]

Not all the National Ordinance guns had cast receivers. I have one that is an original O3A3 receiver that has been restamped by Nat Ord but is still a forged GI receiver.

They originally rebuilt GI guns but started manufacturing their own receivers when the surplus ones dried up.

 

[Jim Watson]

"low grade steels that today, are so cheap and inferior, they are used for things like rebar and rail road ties."

Never saw a steel railroad tie bigger than my old Lionel's. The main sporting use of railroad spikes is ugly knives.

Any road, a while back a curious shooter, a top barrel maker (Ron Smith of Alberta), and maybe a bottle of whisky got together and made a rifle barrel out of rebar. Real "weldable rebar" obtained at a real construction site.

Just to keep the spirit of the whole thing, the scope bases are held on with epoxy and baling wire.

http://www.benchrest.com/showthread.php?82155-Rebar-barrel

Ron said the rebar drilled, reamed, and rifled smoothly.
Set into an action, it shoots X-ring groups.
Pity it is just a .22 so it says nothing about the strength of rebar. The BPCR guys are trying to talk him into making a centerfire barrel, but still in a low pressure caliber.

 

[Slamfire]

Not all the National Ordinance guns had cast receivers. I have one that is an original O3A3 receiver that has been restamped by Nat Ord but is still a forged GI receiver.

They originally rebuilt GI guns but started manufacturing their own receivers when the surplus ones dried up.

Very interesting, would you post pictures of your early receiver?

 

[Acera]

One thing we should mention since you are looking for a shooter. Read the warning in the lower half of the article below.

http://thecmp.org/cmp_sales/rifle_sales/m1903-m1903a3/

I put this out there as I have seen many rifles that are not in their original configuration, and have met sellers that either don't know the issues or are more interested in a sale than your safety.

And, no, a gunsmith can not tell you that a low numbered receiver/bolt is good to go. They could not find a way during a time of war when the US needed every rifle it could get, and no gunsmith today can by just looking at it either.