Starting to reload 7.62x54R and 7.62x39- suggestions?

[Misfire99]

Bore size on the Russian guns is all over the place. And the Russians knew this. If you pull some of the 147 gr. bullets you will likely see that they are hollow base fmj design. This allows the base of the bullet to expand to take up any extra space the barrel might have. There are some Russian fmj boat tail bullets but they are usually heavy ball. I find this very ingenious. The Russians knew they had crappy quality control of the bore size so they came up with a bullet design to compensate.

The Finns on the other hand are spot on 308. They have been reworked by VTK or Sako. I have a number of the M39 rifles and a couple of 91/30s, they are tack drivers.

And if you are interested J&G sales has Bulgarian 7.62x54r ammo 300 rounds for $47, $44 if you buy 900 rounds. I bought some and pulled one apart to see what I had. It's light ball, 147gr, with the hollow base design bullet in brass cases with corrosive berdan primers. This looks to be the best deal on this ammo right now. And from what I heard, take with grain of salt, this is the last of the surplus ammo.

 

[xsquidgator]

Now for a powder question...

does anyone know of a 7.62x54R load that uses IMR4198?
I bought a pound of it to try and I've been using it for my 7.62x39 rounds.

Here's the thing: I can't find any load info with IMR4198 in 7.62x54R in Speer#13, Lee#2, or on Hodgon's website. Ordinarily I'd give up and use a powder that is listed in these data sources.

However, it seems to me that on first principles, 8mm Mauser ought to be pretty similar, since the diameters are close, the range of bullet weights is similar, and the 7.62x54R case volume is 3.59cc compared to 3.69cc for the 8mm Mauser (per the Lee#2 guide). Lee#2 does show one single load for 8mm Mauser using 25.1/28.5gr max under a 150 grain jacketed bullet that ought to be 2225 fps at max.

If the two cartidges are so similar, is it even close to reasonable to think about trying a 7.62x54R load using perhaps 24 or 25 grains IMR4198 under a 125gr or 150gr jacketed bullet?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not about to try this, and even if people here tell me it's ok I'll have to think it over. Just seems to me that this might have a chance of working, and if I can I'd like to use one powder for all my rifle reloading. My rifle reloading right now consists of 7.62x39. I have the dies and will in the next week or two buy some components to do 7.62x54R, and 8mm Mauser reloading is just around the corner for me. I also see 5.56/.223 reloading in my future at some point (I see at least one Lee#2 load for 223 using this same IMR4198). Can a reloader make one powder such as IMR4198 work for all these rifle loads? Should one even try?

 

[trueblue1776]

If the two cartidges are so similar, is it even close to reasonable to think about trying a 7.62x54R load using perhaps 24 or 25 grains IMR4198 under a 125gr or 150gr jacketed bullet?

Yes, it is reasonable, some of my favorite loads started as theoretical little experiments. But, you are entering into untested territory and you must be able to understand all the components of a kaboom.

I don't use IMR4198, but I know I haven't seen many x54r loads that use less than 42gr of powder. You really have to be careful to reasonable fill big cases, to avoid uneven pressure spikes. I think 4198 is a pretty fast powder, uneven burn would be one of my biggest concerns.

With a load as small as 25gr I would not feel good about reducing the charge to work up a safe load, as 25gr already seems too small for the case to me. Then again, I have never worked with 4198, it may be a "fluffy" powder, that can take up more space than I am picturing.

Check to see how much case you fill with 25 gr first, if it looks kosher, back it off and try a few lighter ones.
A no-go test for me would be if you can turn the case on it's side with your thumb on the top, then take your thumb off, if powder spills out it's a go.
If powder does not spill out, look in the case, if you can see anything resembling the pocket area it is BIG a no go!

If you think not, then go with your gut.

 

[xsquidgator]

And now a bullet question, too:
what bullets do those of you who reload 7.62x54R use? While I get started I am leaning towards just using the same 0.310" bullets in both my SKS, AK, and my M44. I slugged the bores on all 3 rifles and got 0.312" groove diameters on my AK and SKS, and got 0.312" to 0.315" in my M44.

How about 0.310" 125 grain jacketed spire/soft points for all these rifles? I don't hunt; these rifles are just for paper punching and the occasional jug full of water, and possibly I suppose for self defense in some sort of extreme situation (pistols/shotgun pretty much for HD, but might as well keep the rifles as backup).

 

[trueblue1776]

Your .310 bullets will be fine in your Mosin. I use a decent variety of bullets for my mosins, my favorite is the .311 Speer HotCor soft points, they are decently cheap and they work on any game I can find.

125gr will be a little harder to seat than the longer 150-200gr bullets, not much though, you'll be fine.

 

[xsquidgator]

true-
thanks much, I didn't see your reply when I added the bullet quesiton a minute ago.

IMR4198 isn't all that fluffy I don't think. As it turns out 24.0 grains of it seems to be the recommended load for 7.62x39 pushing a 125gr spire bullet. I've tried it and it seemed ok in my AK and my SKS. 24.0 grains of IMR4198 just about fills up all the space in a 7.62x39 casing, there's only a tiny bit of space at the mouth, if any in those and those cases are 2.0cc per the Lee guide. If I put that in a 7.62x54R case and turn it on its side some might come out but it will be close to your 'no-go' situation.

I'm guessing that IMR4198 burns faster than most other normal rifle powders. The Lee#2 guide that mentions using 24gr of IMR4198 does recommend in the 45+ grain range for most other powders. I don't think that's a misprint, since my Speer#13 shows a "reduced load" for IMR4198 in 8mm Mauser of 24 to 28 grains; the other powder loads for the same bullets are in the 40-50grain range. Unfortunately Speer doesn't mention the rationale of giving a reduced load only for IMR4198 and not for the other powders. The reduced load of IMR4918 is several hundred fps less than the conventional loads of other powders.

I'm starting to lean towards buying one powder for both 7.62x54R and 8mm Mauser, and just use another powder like IMR4198 for my 7.62x39 rounds.

Guess I'll need yet another powder if I ever buy that AR and get into .223. At least I can keep my pistol powder needs down to one (switching over to W231 after using Unique for a while).

 

[The_Antibubba]

Anyone have any experience with the Prvi-Partizan (Serbian) ammo?

I've always found it to be good ammo.