Starting to teach (IL)

[Trent]

This year has seen an interesting, and monumental, transition in my shooting hobby. Early this year I set out on a quest to become a certified handgun instructor.

* In February, I took NRA Basic Pistol and Personal Protection in the Home.

* In May, I became a certified NRA rifle instructor, and went on to start a successful monthly NRA Highpower Sporting Rifle / F-Class competition at my shooting club (which previously had no organized center-fire rifle events). To complement this and get the club's blessing I also became a certified Range Safety Officer.

* In July, I became a certified NRA Pistol instructor.

* In September, I got my curriculum for teaching concealed carry approved by the Illinois State Police.

* This month, I became a certified NRA Shotgun instructor.

* In December, I'm taking Chief RSO classes so I can train other RSO's at my club.

(Next year I'm planning to get NRA PPITH/PPOTH certifications.)


It's interesting, that I set out to just become a handgun instructor... but discovered along the way that I really enjoy teaching shooters, regardless of discipline!

I never thought that my shooting / gun collecting hobby would evolve in to something like this, but over the years I've accumulated a lot of information and knowledge about firearms, shooting, reloading, lethal force, and self defense. I feel obligated to pass that on to the next generation, so they can pass it on to those that follow them.

If we don't - as shooters - collectively take it upon ourselves to teach others and pass down our skills and heritage to them, eventually there won't be enough of us left to defend ourselves from the most dastardly and sneaky of foes; the only thing on the planet worse than rust, for guns... the politicians.

This is particularly true with the "zero tolerance" for even mentioning anything remotely connected to guns in our schools, and the negative media slant that is applied to firearms in the eye of the public. Within a couple generations, if *we* do not maintain our legacy, it will be lost for good!

I'd like to thank THR staff for providing such a great medium and outlet to learn about firearms without the 'ego' and foulness found on so many other firearms boards.

I'd like to thank THR members for taking time out of their lives to communally share their own knowledge and wisdom on things with the world of firearms; dispelling rumors, providing first hand experience on all sorts of subjects.

THR is truly "an encyclopedia of guns" built by the best, of the best.

We should all be proud.

 

[gondorian]

Are you located in the greater Chicago area?

 

[Frank Ettin]

Good for you, Trent. I believe that teaching new shooters and laying a solid foundation of safety, attitude and skills is one of the most significant contributions we can make to the RKBA.

And it can be extremely satisfying.

 

[Sam1911]

That is really, REALLY fantastic! You're doing honest good in the world.

All the best to you and enjoy it!

 

[Trent]

Are you located in the greater Chicago area?

No, I'm downstate, between Peoria and Bloomington. I have NRA Basic Pistol classes scheduled Nov 2 and 16th.

I'm doing NRA Basic pistol for the first 8 hours. The reasons for this are three-fold. First, I like NRA Basic Pistol's structure, as it has all of the fundamentals in it (more than the law requires). Second, it's recognized all over the country, so if students later move, they've already got a national certificate they can take with them to show they've received training, which is valid in various other states.

The IL State Police allow for 8 hours of credit on the concealed carry training requirements for NRA Basic Pistol. So my students will need to send a copy of that certificate, and the certificate from my second 8 hour class in, for a full 16 hours.

Most places are just doing a single 16 hour class and issuing one certificate for IL Concealed carry. Nothing wrong with that, but it might not qualify later, if you move out of Illinois, depending on what state you move to.

The third and final reason for doing NRA Basic pistol for the first 8 hours is it then qualifies you for taking NRA personal protection in the home, which is the next logical step, followed by NRA personal protection out of the home.

My 8 and 16 hour courses are both approved by the IL State Police. However, I can't teach the second 8 hour course until they approve *ME* - which I'm still waiting on. They've approved about 1300 instructors so far in the last month or so, so they're moving along at a pretty good clip. Eventually they'll get to me.

Good for you, Trent. I believe that teaching new shooters and laying a solid foundation of safety, attitude and skills is one of the most significant contributions we can make to the RKBA.

And it can be extremely satisfying.

Frank, a big part of this transition I made stems from my past. My father shot himself in the head, when I was young, and my uncle had a fatal accident with a handgun back in 2010. My great-grandfather also committed suicide, but that was before I was born.

After my uncle's tragic accident (which I've recalled elsewhere in great detail on THR, won't go in to it again), I almost quit shooting altogether. I couldn't stomach looking at guns. Let alone shooting them.

The biggest kick in the gut from all of that, what made the wound really, really tough to close, was I sold my uncle the hand-gun that he accidentally shot and killed himself with.

Eventually, time healed some of that wound, and I slowly got back in to shooting. (I won't run a gun shop again, though.)

Eventually, a purpose grew within me to teach people what I've learned over the years, so that they never have to experience what I did.

So for me, this is very personal, and not motivated by money, or ego, or a desire to prove myself in some fashion.

That is really, REALLY fantastic! You're doing honest good in the world.

All the best to you and enjoy it!

Sam, I hope to!

My first class on Nov 2nd is something of a mix of friends and family. One of the students is someone I've been friends with for several years. He's driving down from Chicago the night before to attend the class. He's never shot a gun before. Never been around guns before. And (until he met me) was decidedly anti-gun! I've debated with him online now for a couple of years about firearms. He's changed his position from strongly against gun ownership, to "neutral".

I didn't approach him about the class. HE approached ME when he saw me post up about it on Facebook. He said "I still don't know if I want to own a gun. But I want to learn about gun safety, and I want to try shooting."

This one sign up, alone, was a major victory.

Others who are attending the class, come from a wide range of lifestyles and livelihoods.

The only thing that scares me (more than a little) is my wife will be there. *IN* the class. She signed up for it when I offered it! (There's a thread on here about that, too... somewhere. My wife has taken 12 years to come around to the 'dark side').

So I guess that's another major victory.

 

[2A Citizen]

WoW! Just Wow. Great Story.

 

[defjon]

Hey, I'm not far from Peoria. I've waited a long time for IL to get CCW so I will need to get the 16 hours at some point. Where do you teach? I know BloNo has Darnells and there is an indoor range now in Peoria on University I've shot at.

 

[hso]

Outstanding! Congratulations.

If we don't - as shooters - collectively take it upon ourselves to teach others and pass down our skills and heritage to them, eventually there won't be enough of us left to defend ourselves from the most dastardly and sneaky of foes; the only thing on the planet worse than rust, for guns... the politicians.

Bullseye!

 

[Fred Fuller]

Good work - and thanks for doing it.

 

[Trent]

Hey, I'm not far from Peoria. I've waited a long time for IL to get CCW so I will need to get the 16 hours at some point. Where do you teach? I know BloNo has Darnells and there is an indoor range now in Peoria on University I've shot at.

I'm doing the classroom work indoors, in an office building in Tremont. The range work will be outdoors, at Tremont Sportsmans Club.

Yes, I could do the range portion indoors, but won't. You don't get to pick the time when you will need to defend yourself. So, cold, wind, rain, even snow.. we shoot outdoors. Train like you plan to fight.

Right now I've only got a schedule set for NRA Basic Pistol (first 8 hours). It's not a concealed carry course, per se, but the certificate I issue counts for 8 hours against the 16 you need. The other 8 hours will be advertised once I get my instructor ID from the IL State Police. My curriculum (class) was approved, but I'm still waiting on my instructor credentials.

I'll continue doing the two classes separate. It will help me weed out brand new shooters who might need a little more practice before taking the second course. I'm not going to pass anyone from the second CCW portion unless I feel confident they are practiced enough, and have the right attitude, to carry responsibly.

There are undoubtedly instructors who will mill out people without a care (sit you down for the time, take your money, have you shoot the minimum rounds at the great big B-27 target, and off you go)... but I'm not going to be one of them. I'm not putting anyone on the street with a loaded gun that I don't feel is capable of doing so responsibly. Each person I train, I might have to serve as a witness for in court, someday, and I need to know each of those people I train is responsible, and reflects well on other gun owners.

Concealed carry is so new in this state, there really are some people that think it's a dang license to kill. (Not helped by the anti-gun liberals who think getting a CCW is akin to deputizing half the population without any governance; they spin it so negatively in the public eye).

I plan on being a little picky about who I pass.

I'm really torn on that, too. A big part of me says "It's a right, and people shouldn't have to beg/prove/plead/pay for that right."

The other part of me says "People in Illinois haven't ever HAD the opportunity to do this (carry guns), and there are so many ill-conceived notions about lethal force and self defense in this state, they NEED the training."

If you'd asked me earlier this year I would have agreed wholeheartedly with zero training requirement on our shall issue law.

After talking with people for the last 10 months while all of this has unfolded, many of whom are new firearm owners who are just learning how to do it, man.. I'm starting to think 16 hours isn't ENOUGH time to train some people.

Back to the point; it's why I'm splitting it up in to two classes. If I see someone in the basic pistol class who I'm not comfortable with giving a CCW yet, I can delay the second 8 hours until we've had a chance to bring the skills and knowledge up more.

 

[Trent]

PS If you guys want updates, you can look my personal facebook page up here:

https://www.facebook.com/trent.lawrence.98

Be forewarned, some of my posts are not work safe (language), but I don't ever post anything visually offensive (nasty photos, etc). I will say that the day my Irish Wolfhound ate my livingroom couch, and I posted those photos up, I used some colorful language.

If you friend request me make SURE you message me and mention you are from THR!

The reason for this is I normally do not accept friend requests from people I do not know, but don't mind having responsible pro-gun folks around.

 

[Trent]

I'm also an admin on these groups:

Peoria IL Area Guns & Ammo (Buy, Sell, Trade)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/462848430452699/

Tremont Sportsmans Club Monthly Rifle Competition
https://www.facebook.com/groups/159637827569055/

(Monthly NRA Highpower Sporting Rifle match, and F-Class)

 

[MrWesson]

Do you do this as your primary career or see it becoming a possibility in the future?

Being in a anti state what obstacles did you have to overcome vs a gun friendly state?

Congrats and thanks for furthering the cause in a tough environment.

 

[Old Dog]

Trent, your attitude is great! Thank you.

There are undoubtedly instructors who will mill out people without a care (sit you down for the time, take your money, have you shoot the minimum rounds at the great big B-27 target, and off you go)... but I'm not going to be one of them. I'm not putting anyone on the street with a loaded gun that I don't feel is capable of doing so responsibly. Each person I train, I might have to serve as a witness for in court, someday, and I need to know each of those people I train is responsible, and reflects well on other gun owners.

I wish all the other instructors I knew felt this way. I'm an instructor for a fairly large law enforcement agency, and at times I get frustrated with the attitudes of some of my fellow instructors -- "just get 'em in, get 'em out, get 'em qual'ed" ... Especially when introducing new folks to the world of guns and shooting, we do have a responsibility to at least try to impart that little bit of extra wisdom to our students. Kudos to you, and I hope your attitude doesn't change. Also, thanks for stepping up and doing the groundwork in that state with the unfriendly political climate.

 

[Midwest]

Congratulations and thanks .

 

[Trent]

Do you do this as your primary career or see it becoming a possibility in the future?

Being in a anti state what obstacles did you have to overcome vs a gun friendly state?

Congrats and thanks for furthering the cause in a tough environment.

No, my primary career is owning a firm which provides datacenter, hosting, and software development services. Teaching is a side job.

However, my "day job" is incredibly stressful - really never get downtime, when you are on call 24 hours a day. And as the tech lead, there's no-one to bump problems to; I'm the last stop on the escalation ladder. Which means I have to solve every problem that gets escalated to me, no exceptions, and rarely ever any help. It's sometimes dangerously stressful, both to my health, and family / personal life.

Some day in the future I hope to sell my technology company (or otherwise retire), and build a range / training facility. Between now and then I will continue training and learning, and teaching. You can never know it all; I learn new things every day. My tech company is worth quite a lot, so when I do sell it (or a part of it), I should be able to fund a pretty substantial training outfit.

As far as Obstacles in an anti-gun state? Oh man. Where would I even begin?

The red tape is horrible, for starters. The Illinois State Police have been timely, but the required mechanisms involved in the process are aggravating. One of the delays I personally faced was finding time I could take off work, to drive two hours to get electronic fingerprints. Closest facility offering LiveScan fingerprint services was an hour away. So two hours round trip, and $75 later, I come back home with a TCN number that I can use to fill out the convenient website form.

I say convenient, with great sarcasm that isn't relaying properly in text form.

Once that was done, I had to print out my credentials, print out a signature authorization form, fill out another form which duplicated most of the information on the web form I submitted, etc. Those needed to be notarized (I have an employee who is a notary, so that wasn't too big of a deal). Then sent in for processing.

Now, I've already passed an FBI background check for my FFL, you'd figure I could have skipped some of that mess. But there are no exceptions.

Overall this year I've spent just a hair over $2,000 of my personal money getting training, ordering materials, getting applications done for the Illinois state police, getting instructor liability insurance, etc. I could have done it for a little less (some of that money was getting certified for rifle, shotgun, RSO, etc which isn't strictly required), but I'm happy with the results.

I've taken 78 hours of firearms training so far this year; another 8 hours to go for chief RSO. Next year I'm going to take instructor courses for PPITH/PPOTH and then - the big one! Going out of state for a week to take some serious personal training at one of those big facilities out west.

(This is because, advanced training is required to qualify to teach NRA defensive pistol)

So far it's been an interesting journey, one that I hope to continue in the years to come.

No matter how good I think I am, or how seasoned of an instructor I might one day become, I still plan on taking training courses whenever I can, because you can always learn new stuff if you have an open mind.

 

[Trent]

Trent, your attitude is great! Thank you.

I wish all the other instructors I knew felt this way. I'm an instructor for a fairly large law enforcement agency, and at times I get frustrated with the attitudes of some of my fellow instructors -- "just get 'em in, get 'em out, get 'em qual'ed" ... Especially when introducing new folks to the world of guns and shooting, we do have a responsibility to at least try to impart that little bit of extra wisdom to our students. Kudos to you, and I hope your attitude doesn't change. Also, thanks for stepping up and doing the groundwork in that state with the unfriendly political climate.

Thanks Old Dog.

I said it earlier but it's worth repeating, my perspective changed on the training thing.

I may catch some flak for this, but in all seriousness, there ARE folks who need a lot of training. Deadly force is no laughing matter, not something to take lightly, or make assumptions with.

I thought *I* knew everything there was about deadly force, going in to this year. What what I learned, is I had a problem with being too cocky. I found out I really didn't know all that much about deadly force. Lots of time on the legal section on this board, lots of classroom time, chats with my attorney, chats with law enforcement, and lots of research.

I've probably spent well over 100 hours this year just learning about deadly force, alone. Every time you think you got a handle on it, some new situation occurs to you or shows up on the news, and you start thinking "Dang, I've never thought of it from THAT angle." And so it begins again. Tear down the image. Learn, re-integrate the new knowledge in to the existing knowledge base, fit the pieces back together again.

That's why I said in my last post if you have an open mind you will learn new things no matter WHO you are.

I've got 4 hours to cover deadly force in my class, by law. I'm required to cover many things; gun cleaning, for instance. We'll cover gun cleaning in as short a time as possible, with an emphasis on "keep your defensive firearm in a well maintained state." Then the rest of the required time spent on gun cleaning, we'll pass cleaning supplies around the room while we talk about deadly force.

Won't break the rules in the law, but I'll bend them a smidge to make sure my students get as much knowledge as possible about deadly force and practical application. I mean, really, what business does two hours of gun cleaning have in a concealed carry course!

Fortunately there's quite a bit of leeway in the requirements issued by the state police. You have to certify your class will cover (about two pages) worth of concepts, and spend a certain amount of time on certain segments.

But practical implementation is up to the instructor.

E.g.

http://www.isp.state.il.us/firearms/ccw/CurriculumApprovalRequest(2-638).pdf

Weapon Handling; Minimum 4 hours.
______ a. Dry fire practice drills, handgun fundamentals
______ b. Dry fire practice drills from concealment
______ c. Live fire practice drills, handgun fundamentals
______ d. Live fire qualification with a concealable firearm consisting of minimum of 30 rounds which must include 10 rounds from a distance of 5 yards; 10 rounds from a distance of 7 yards; and 10 rounds from a distance of 10 yards at a B-27 silhouette target approved by the Illinois State Police. (See www.isp.state.il.us/fi rearms/ccw/ccw-faq.cfm)

It's up to the instructor how to spend the vast majority of time in that segment. You have to cover three generic things, and one very specific thing, but the method of instruction is up to the individual.

I plan on doing some fun practical exercises to occupy those four hours. And I plan on teaching students drills they can continue on their own, to continue to refine their skills.

NRA Basic Pistol has a segment (essentially) on "what to do next", which covers the NRA marksmanship qualification program, scoring targets, etc. I'm going to cover the required material, but I'll do it quickly and not use a full hour on it. Because "what to do next", in my curriculum, begins to reach in to getting additional training, practice drills, teaching basics of awareness, etc.

Fortunately the NRA gives instructors some latitude in that we can add additional material to our classes (with some restrictions; types of targets, etc) so long as we cover all of the concepts we're supposed to cover, and make sure students understand "this is above and beyond, and not coming from the NRA."

 

[HankR]

Congrats, and good job.

 

[Trent]

Ran my first class yesterday, a small one, 5 students. Had a great time. Went over the 8 hour length by 2.5 hours (whoops).

Some things I noticed after my first class:

* Students who get interested ask lots of questions, which can become a time management issue. But not a bad problem to have, since it means they are learning.

* I need to keep class sizes small. We had two first-time-ever shooters in this class and they need a lot of attention. If I run larger classes I need to bring in an assistant.

* "Being on stage for 8 (10) hours" is exhausting. I was more tired when I got home last night than I remember being in a very long time.

* This stuff is a LOT of work. The class itself means dedicating an entire day (plus about 4 hours; two for prep, one for teardown, one for travelling). I worked a total of 15 hours yesterday. Plus time spent going over my lesson plan, conversing with students to register them before the class.. doing certificates afterwards.. submitting reports...

I think overall I've got about 22 hours wrapped up in to teaching one 8 hour class. I imagine I can shave some time off that on future classes (prep will get easier as I establish a routine).

It's a heck of a lot more work than I envisioned though. I brought in a total of $250 in fees for working about 22 hours. Materials cost me about $100. Which means I made less than minimum wage doing this.

(Granted one of the students was my wife, which went through for free.. and another was a co-worker who I sent through for free, as he helped with prep work. But still. $6.88 an hour for my time sucks!)

Going to do it again. But this isn't a money maker thing, not at this volume. I can't do larger classes without assistance, which means splitting the revenue. Not a 'get rich quick' thing by any means!

Oh well, I'll do it for love of the hobby. What the heck.

(Just hope a student doesn't complain about $100 for an 8 hour course any time soon, they'll get an earful about what is involved)

I'm still $1700 in the hole this year on expenses, to get set up for training.

 

[Fred Fuller]

Congratulations! Teaching is a learning experience - for the teacher .

Not a lot of people make a living at this. Most do break even on expenses, eventually, but most don't even make minimum wage. And for most, that isn't the main consideration.

It does get easier, and you will get better at it if you keep it up. And you will continue to learn as well. You're making a contribution to the community of shooters, and that's an important thing to do.

I hope gratitude is some reward...

 

[Trent]

Congratulations! Teaching is a learning experience - for the teacher .

Not a lot of people make a living at this. Most do break even on expenses, eventually, but most don't even make minimum wage. And for most, that isn't the main consideration.

Some are in it for the money. Today at my monthly rifle competition I talked to a man who took an IL Concealed carry course last weekend, from a "national concealed carry teaching chain."

There was 1 instructor for over 100 students. They did 4 hours of lecture on law then spent 4 hours waiting in a field to shoot their qualifier shoots.

Based on what he "learned about the law" (He was happy to educate me on his learnings.. sigh), and what I know about lethal force doctrine, all 100+ students are going to enter the lifestyle of concealed carry with some really bad information.

It does get easier, and you will get better at it if you keep it up. And you will continue to learn as well. You're making a contribution to the community of shooters, and that's an important thing to do.

I hope gratitude is some reward...

I did good on the teaching front. My wife (who is highly critical) also took my class yesterday, and said I did a fantastic job. Which, I think is first time she has ever said anything like that in the 12 years we've been together.

The other four students in the class have all contacted me since class ended asking to be put on the list for my next class. Have the 2nd half of the 16 hour IL course to teach once I'm approved.

So feedback on that end was good.

I'm learning as I go too - I got hit with an unexpected question yesterday I wasn't prepared to answer. "How do I quickly load a revolver... left handed?"

Well, crap. I struck out on that one. I can use a semi-auto both hands no problem. But I've only ever reloaded my revolver right handed. I have those reloads down fast. So I marked it down to look up and watch some videos of left handed revolver shooters when I get home, and I'll practice it. I *know* there is a way to handle the gun left handed to quickly reload but I've never practiced it and I couldn't for the life of me recall how to do it.

Just one small example of how students force us to learn and improve ourselves in ways we might not have ever thought to do otherwise.

The big thing I lack is organization, making things easier on myself, because I'm not experienced running classrooms. The administration end is ALL new to me. Simple things like moving my target stash and materials from the basement gun room, to the shelving in the garage, will save time loading up. Prepping the classroom the night before the class, means I don't have to wake up 3 hours early to go in and set up.

Next time I do this, the only worry I want to have the morning of a class, is drinking coffee, putting on my boots, grabbing my guns, and heading out the door. I want to have everything else set up and done.

Any other instructors want to share time saving tips, I'm all ears!

 

[Frank Ettin]

....Not a lot of people make a living at this. Most do break even on expenses, eventually, but most don't even make minimum wage. And for most, that isn't the main consideration.

Some are in it for the money. Today at my monthly rifle competition I talked to a man who took an IL Concealed carry course last weekend, from a "national concealed carry teaching chain."

There was 1 instructor for over 100 students...

My friends and I don't even try to make any money. None of us get any monetary compensation out of our Basic Handgun classes. Our class fees cover our material and operating expenses (including insurance, materials we distribute and our teaching aids/AV stuff) and allow us to maintain a small contingency reserve. If we took any money for ourselves we'd be seriously underwater.

Our class runs about 10 hours. We usually have between six and ten students, and limit the class to no more than twelve. We will have between four and six instructors at each class, so students get a lot of one-on-one attention.

I described our class format in this post.

Ran my first class yesterday, a small one, 5 students. Had a great time. Went over the 8 hour length by 2.5 hours (whoops).

Some things I noticed after my first class:

* Students who get interested ask lots of questions, which can become a time management issue. But not a bad problem to have, since it means they are learning.

* I need to keep class sizes small. We had two first-time-ever shooters in this class and they need a lot of attention. If I run larger classes I need to bring in an assistant.

* "Being on stage for 8 (10) hours" is exhausting. I was more tired when I got home last night than I remember being in a very long time.

* This stuff is a LOT of work. The class itself means dedicating an entire day (plus about 4 hours; two for prep, one for teardown, one for travelling). I worked a total of 15 hours yesterday. Plus time spent going over my lesson plan, conversing with students to register them before the class.. doing certificates afterwards.. submitting reports...

Good job, and it looks like you're learning the right lessons.

I think for a raw beginner class five or so students is about the upper limit for a solo instructor. Beginners need, and benefit from, a lot of hands-on one-on-one work. This is very new stuff for them and all of them are nervous to some degree.

 

[Trent]

I hit up my training counselor today for a list of other area Basic Pistol instructors, so I can bring in backup. I can't take on more than 5-6 students alone, and do the job that needs to be done (properly.) At least not students with a lower experience level.

When I do more advanced classes next year, I could up that ratio quite a bit to 15 students. I routinely manage that many folks at my rifle competitions, and I'm comfortable with a dozen or more people on the firing line. (We have 15 shooting positions on our line for our rifle competitions each month, so I'm used to running a line that big.) I'd still break it down in to at least two groups, to do the coach/pupil drills, so if I had 10 in the class, 5 would be shooting at once.

More than that I want a second set of eyes on the line. It's stressful to keep an eye on a large line. It wears you out quickly as your attention has to be very focused to keep an eye on things. I always feel tired after running rifle competitions, even on days when there's a lot of people and I don't shoot. (If we have a smaller group show up, I filter in on the line and join in).