State Police investigating High School drug Sweep (The Goose Creek, SC story)

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Don Galt

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http://www.wtev.com/news/national/story.aspx?content_id=DB11FEE4-EABB-47A6-816C-F92C01BED959

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/mld/sunnews/news/local/7220247.htm

The last thread was closed, but in the closure the expectation of a new thread was expressed. IF the topic is verboten, please accept my apologies.

The thing that I didn't realize before is that the kids where handcuffed.

Isn't handcuffing a form of imprisonment? Isn't it something that you can only legally do when you are lawfully arresting someone?

Just to give an example-- if I were to surprise a criminal rifling thru my wife's jewelry box, and say I subdued him in some way, would it be legal for me to handcuff him while I waited for the police to arrive? (This is assuming there's no gun involved.)

Or would handcuffing this guy put me in danger of a prosecution later?

It seems totally wrong for these cops to have handcuffed these kids-- but it does make drawing guns on them even more heinous. IF they were handcuffed, how were they a threat requiring drawing guns?

Don
 
In testing the voluntariness of a confession the courts will tend to assume if a person is handcuffed he is under arrest. However, officers can and do handcuff persons detained during and investigatory stop if they feel it is necessary for their safety.

Handcuffing someone going through your wife's jewelry box will probably not subject you to prosecution. However, doing so gets yourself dangerously close to a potentially really bad person. Especially if that person has trained in prison on how to get control of and disarm people trying to handcuff them.

Handcuffing is a method of control, not arrest.

Pilgrim
 
Aarons said the guns were drawn as "a matter of officer safety."

"I don't think it was an overreaction," he said. "Anytime you have qualified information regarding drugs and large amounts of money, there's a reasonable assumption weapons are involved."

Police handcuffed students who failed to "respond to repeated police instruction," Aarons said.
And therein lies the problem... I absolutely and totally agree with Mr. Aarons that guns and drugs go together, and that if this sweep had been conducted in a typical inner-city slum environment, the police actions would have been wholly in character and justifiable. However, a school is NOT your typical slum environment! To use drawn weapons when there is no obvious risk factor is a serious misjudgement at best. The use of restraints on certain individuals, if they resisted a lawful police search, is also justifiable: but if they were not resisting a lawful search, but just being idiots, then the use of restraints is also legally questionable. I don't think we've heard the last of this...
 
Well, I haven't seen any reports of there being a warrent. In fact, the reports so far was this was a "Sweep". IF there's no warrent, its a lawless search, is it not?
 
(preacherman) I absolutely and totally agree with Mr. Aarons that guns and drugs go together,

No, guns and drug prohibition go together. Guns and drugs are unrelated. It would be in our best interest to sue for an immediate divorce in the marriage of "guns and drugs".

At least, let's not celebrate the union.

MR
 
While police can handcuff suspects in an investigatory stop, they must have probable cause to investigate. There were 104 students in that hallway, and, at most, the police are alleging 15 people were involved in drug activity. They had no warrants, and no probable cause do detain the other students. It would seem to me that, in addition to poor judgement, the officers are guilty of:

False arrest
False Imprisonment
Assault
Assault and Battery
 
Words can't describe what I feel towards the LE involved with that so-called "sweep".
I can't believe that the Dept. and other hi-mucky-mucks stated, that at no time was a gun pointed at any students.
B.S.!
One of the tapes clearly shows some of the LEO's pointing their service pistols at students!
Anyone notice the guy standing there in some type of military uniform?
Looked like an Army one to me(recruiter, student ROTC type-thingy?). He had his hands up, clearly surprised.
They knocked his A** to the ground shortly thereafter. Gun pointed at him.
Yeah... I'm sure he was a hardcore drug dealer...:scrutiny:

In the end, I read that no one was arrested, no drugs found. What are these guys? Keystone cops?:cuss:
 
Those kids they hand cuffed refused to cooperate so there wasn't much else they could do. The bust or nonbust was pathetic the keystone Kops could do a better job, hopefully some heads role.
 
Well, I haven't seen any reports of there being a warrent. In fact, the reports so far was this was a "Sweep". IF there's no warrent, its a lawless search, is it not?

The U.S. Supreme Court has created a number of exceptions to the requirement for a search warrant per the Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

The Supremes have ruled school officials may search a student's belongings if officials have a reasonable grounds for suspecting the search will turn up evidence the student has violated or is violating school rules or the law. New Jersey v. T.L.O (1985)

I suppose a case could be made the Goose Creek police were assisting the school officials in searching the student's belongings. However, since the principal stated he turned the "problem" over to the police, then the police would have to develop their own reasonable suspicion to detain each student.

It is one thing to station a drug sniffing dog at the door and students have to go past the dog to get into the school. It is entirely another thing for the police to say, "Hey, you! Come over here so the dog can sniff your stuff!"

It is one thing for the police to assist the school officials. It is another thing for the school officials to be assisting the police. Different standards to detain and search. I expect that if there had been any arrests, there would be some interesting challenges in court as to who was acting as agent for whom.

Pilgrim
 
I think "reasonable suspicion" is a silly standard. Probable Cause seems more in keeping with the constitution.

I have reasonable suspicion that any given police officer has drugs on his person, as they are known to regularly confiscate them. Therefore, by that standard, I have the legal right to detain, and handcuff, any police officer I see in uniform.

Somehow, I suspect attempts to do so would quickly end my life.

I recognize no greater authority in cops than in citizens. There are no special rights granted by the constitution, nor any state constitutions to police officers. Remember, they did not exist when these constitutions were written (except with the possible exception of some of the last states to join).

The idea that police have special authority over citizens is contrary to the founding principles of this country. It is an endorsement of tyranny, that I think very few people can see.

It is an example of the error behind much of the failure of this country to achieve what it was supposed to achieve. Or to hold onto what we were meant to have. (EG: Liberty instead of tyranny.)

In every area of society... when government takes over a job that is really the responsibility of citizens to look after, the government subsidizes and creates a welfare system. Police, Fire protection, social services, are all examples of this. Welfare is replacing private charity with government welfare. Police is replacing private policing with public supply of that service. When private agencies do these things they are accountable to their customers, their competitors, and to the people they interact with (in the case of, say, a private fire suppression agency-- if they damage a neighbors house needlessly they are liable, and so they will tend to treat the neighbors house with respect while putting out a fire in yours.) When the state takes over, the state has no economic incentive to do a good job-- they are not liable for errors. At the same time, the buro-crats increase their power by increasing the area of coverage and responsiblity. Which decreases the individuals rights to choose who to supply this service for them.

In other words, just as the government does not supply our food, and provides a very poor service in its postal monopoly, its train monpoly, and its regulation of the airlines and electric services. With police, firefighting and other government services private agencies would do a better job.

This is not without precident-- originally police forces were volunteer organizations --- literally private charities. OR they were corporations like Wells Fargo and the Pinkertons. When they were done by non-government entities, they were held accountable.

But as they were taken over by governments, and authority accrued to buro-crats in the interests of power, they have necessarily become more tyrannical. Its the economic nature of socialism (And the state taking over this service, is just like nationalizing the post office or any other industry-- its state control over what should be a private enterprise.)

This is also why so many police are against the second ammendment-- private ownership of guns threatens their jobs. (though many are smart enough to see the error in this position.) This is exactly why the police chiefs are against the second ammendment, though, as thier jobs are directly threatened, and they are not on the line dealing with people who are being victimized.

This is not an anti-cop screed-- it is an attempt to show the economic argument for why events like this are going to come more and more frequently. And if there are any cops reading this who think I think they should be out of a job-- they are in error. I think they should work for companies that provide them better benefits, better working conditions, and that value them because without them they would not be able to provide the quality of service that they want-- a quality of service that is a lot closer to what you dreamed being a policeman would be like before becomming one.

And just as baseball batts and cars being freely availible has not resulted in demolition derbies on the freeways and constant fighting with baseball batts in bars.... private police agencies would not cause inter-agency shootouts!

It used to be the police were local, in the neighborhood, and extremely polite. It was a much better time to be a policeman, and a much better time to live near them.

I think the quote in my sig sums it up nicely.

Don

PS- please forgive the typos, fast typing. Edited to fix some.
 
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