Steve's Guns Pt 3 - The Enfields

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Miduzu

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Hello All! I hope everybody had a great weekend!

This is part of a series delving into my late Father's collection, background here:

Steve's Guns Pt 1 - Antique Long
Steve's Guns Pt 2 - The Mausers

This here is one SMLE thread.

Fortunately, these are all identified as my Dad kept a lot of notes, which I have included below - what I'm not as able to tell on my own is if any of these items stand out as being particularly unique or cool from a historical or collector's standpoint and I'm trying to get a general ballpark sense of the value of these items. I'm also not 100% sure if they are graded correctly - grades are often cited in the notes, but I'm not sure where they come from (dealer he purchased from, did he grade them on his own, etc.) and whether or not they are accurate. Finally, just wanting to share, he had some cool stuff and I figure that there is someone who will appreciate it and they're probably subscribed to this board!

As always if you take the time to have a look, I appreciate you - thank you very much!

Obviously, we will have to start with the Grenade Launcher (Dad never could seem to get ahold of any Mills bombs, so we launched tennis balls into low earth orbit with this thing instead and it was one of the most fun activities of all time.)

Piece: LE1
Manufacturer / Importer: Springfield Sporters
Model: Lee Enfield No1Mkk3, Grenade Launcher
Caliber: .303
Comments: G, Ishapore India, wire wrapped with cup launcher
Images: https://imgur.com/a/0wPkLU6

Piece: LE2
Manufacturer / Importer: CAI, St Alban VT
Model: Lee Enfield No4Mk1
Caliber: .303
Comments: Fazakerly, England, VG-
Images: https://imgur.com/a/wRd9L4I

Piece: LE3 (My First Rifle! Love to hear anything interesting there is to know about it. An almost supernaturally consistent and accurate plinker no matter who is using it. Bane of pennies. Weighs damn near as much as I did when I first shot it. The mag has been gutted and fixed to collect ejected brass.)
Manufacturer / Importer: CAI, St Alban VT
Model: Lee Enfield No1 Mk3 Trainer
Caliber: .22LR
Comments: BSA Co, 1917 Sht LE III*, G+, excellent shooter
Images: https://imgur.com/a/IAq6W2O

Piece: LE4
Manufacturer / Importer: CAI, St Alban VT
Model: Lee Enfield No1 Mk3
Caliber: .303
Comments: Probably crap. Looks bulged on right chamber. Torch? (Any ideas about what I should do in cases like this where the piece is questionably safe? Wallhanger? Take to gunsmith? Is there liability to me in selling as-is if I call out that I do not feel that it is safe to fire?)
Images: https://imgur.com/a/ZI6e3rY

Piece: LE5 (Guessing the boxy mag is just a 2A1 thing?)
Manufacturer / Importer: CAI, St Alban VT
Model: Ishapore 2A1
Caliber: 7.62x51
Comments: G+, check bolt & remore scope
Images: https://imgur.com/a/2odVmAL

Piece: LE6
Manufacturer / Importer: BHP (BMP?)
Model: Lee Enfield No4Mk2(F)
Caliber: .303
Comments: 8/52, G_
Images: https://imgur.com/a/sZS1toz

Piece: LE7
Manufacturer / Importer: CAI, St Alban VT
Model: Lee Enfield No4Mk2
Caliber: .303
Comments: VG+, light wood. Was unfired when got it
Images: https://imgur.com/a/Kdp11rA

Piece: LE8
Manufacturer / Importer: CAI, St Alban VT
Model: Lee Enfield No4Mk2(F)
Caliber: .303
Comments: G, 11/54
Images: https://imgur.com/a/6xTdzYD

Piece: LE9
Manufacturer / Importer: Springfield Sporters
Model: Lee Enfield No1MkIII* Riot Shotgun
Caliber: .410 Shotgun
Comments: Indian single shot, Mag well filled in with wood. GRI 1942 No1mkIII* on right. Left 410 RFI 1948lots stamps, VG
Images: https://imgur.com/a/6sSOjmy
 
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Most of those seem like clean examples. Enfield prices have been climbing steadily lately, but .303 ammo is getting harder and harder to obtain.

The .22 should fetch a premium, and the .410s ( once the unwanted bastards of the Enfield world) have developed a following as well, even the 2A1s are now sought after because at least you can feed them.

IMO, most of the .303s are in the $500-750 range, with the .410 towards the upper end of that and the .22 somewhere around $900. The wire-wrapped Ishy is a toss-up, some folks seek out the wire guns, but a .303 Ishapore is less desirable than one from another manufacturer, generally. Last time I looked, 2A1s were going for around $600.

Once again, thanks for sharing!

PS, It sounds like you are going to keep the .22, and I certainly would if I were you, but if you do decide to sell it, please PM, I would be interested, thanks!
 
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NIGHTLORD40K said:
PS, It sounds like you are going to keep the .22, and I certainly would if I were you, but if you do decide to sell it, please PM, I would be interested, thanks!
Click to expand...

Curious, are you looking for a special Enfield 22 trainer, or just a nice example???. There are just so many damn fine trainers made over the years.. A Lot of nicely marked Enfield rifles had been converted over the years..
 
NIGHTLORD40K said:
Most of those seem like clean examples. Enfield prices have been climbing steadily lately, but .303 ammo is getting harder and harder to obtain.

The .22 should fetch a premium, and the .410s ( once the unwanted bastards of the Enfield world) have developed a following as well, even the 2A1s are now sought after because at least you can feed them.

IMO, most of the .303s are in the $500-750 range, with the .410 towards the upper end of that and the .22 somewhere around $900. The wire-wrapped Ishy is a toss-up, some folks seek out the wire guns, but a .303 Ishapore is less desirable than one from another manufacturer, generally. Last time I looked, 2A1s were going for around $600.

Once again, thanks for sharing!

PS, It sounds like you are going to keep the .22, and I certainly would if I were you, but if you do decide to sell it, please PM, I would be interested, thanks!
Click to expand...

It's cool that there's a bit of a following for the .410s these days. I am making a pile of sales decisions right now and will probably hang on to the .22, but if I do decide to sell it I will reach out to you first.

Out of curiosity do you know what the story is with the wire wrap? Was it... just for grip? Mostly and Indian thing or did the British do it on their own rifles? I have piles of ammo for all of these as well that can go with pieces or separately depending on what makes sense. I know there's a bunch of .303 floating around for sure.

Rest going up tonight, Mosins, Misc Bolts (US, French, and Swiss) Misc Semi-Autos, AKs. Then in a few days pistols and that'll be it.

Thanks again for your input. I really appreciate it.
 
Miduzu said:
It's cool that there's a bit of a following for the .410s these days. I am making a pile of sales decisions right now and will probably hang on to the .22, but if I do decide to sell it I will reach out to you first.

Out of curiosity do you know what the story is with the wire wrap? Was it... just for grip? Mostly and Indian thing or did the British do it on their own rifles? I have piles of ammo for all of these as well that can go with pieces or separately depending on what makes sense. I know there's a bunch of .303 floating around for sure.

Rest going up tonight, Mosins, Misc Bolts (US, French, and Swiss) Misc Semi-Autos, AKs. Then in a few days pistols and that'll be it.

Thanks again for your input. I really appreciate it.
Click to expand...
The wire-wrapping was meant to limit the amount of shrapnel damage in the event a barrel burst while firing a grenade. It was only done on dedicated grenade-launching rifles.
Its actually somewhat rare on an Ishapore, most wire guns being British or Canadian manufacture.

I love my .410 musket! Heres my daughter shooting it-
index-1.jpg
 
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NIGHTLORD40K said:
The wire-wrapping was meant to limit the amount of shrapnel damage in the event a barrel burst while firing a grenade. It was only done on dedicated grenade-launching rifles.
Its actually somewhat rare on an Ishapore, most wire guns being British or Canadian manufacture.
Click to expand...

No way, that's friggin' awesome!!
 
NIGHTLORD40K said:
The wire-wrapping was meant to limit the amount of shrapnel damage in the event a barrel burst while firing a grenade. It was only done on dedicated grenade-launching rifles.
Its actually somewhat rare on an Ishapore, most wire guns being British or Canadian manufacture.

I love my .410 musket! Heres my daughter shooting it-
View attachment 937698
Click to expand...


You know I love the Grizzly imagery

And like Mr Parker would say "Gee I love that kinda talk" .

Were as the wire wrap might do that. It really was intended to prevent the rifle barrel in the stock from moving then cracking and shattering the stock. Really think that if the day got near that they were worrying about barrels bursting, they would just surplus it and sell the thing to some Colonial to get even for that tea party unpleasantness. :)
 
indy1919a4 said:
You know I love the Grizzly imagery

And like Mr Parker would say "Gee I love that kinda talk" .

Were as the wire wrap might do that. It really was intended to prevent the rifle barrel in the stock from moving then cracking and shattering the stock. Really think that if the day got near that they were worrying about barrels bursting, they would just surplus it and sell the thing to some Colonial to get even for that tea party unpleasantness. :)
Click to expand...
Hmmm, I read the burst barrel explanation in one of my books- "The Illustrated Guide to Service Rifles of the World," but you got me wondering, so I did some more research and you would appear to be correct, that it was meant to prevent cracking of the wood. However, the launching of rod grenades did apparently cause bulged barrels, though I couldnt find any incidences of actual bursting in a quick internet search.
Well, ya learn something everyday- then ya die, lol.
 
NIGHTLORD40K said:
Hmmm, I read the burst barrel explanation in one of my books- "The Illustrated Guide to Service Rifles of the World," but you got me wondering, so I did some more research and you would appear to be correct, that it was meant to prevent cracking of the wood. However, the launching of rod grenades did apparently cause bulged barrels, though I couldnt find any incidences of actual bursting in a quick internet search.
Well, ya learn something everyday- then ya die, lol.
Click to expand...



Oh heck give it time these things usually come in threes.. There may be another reason floating out there..:)

But I have seen Enfields reports in the day worry about about wood splitting and barrel movement.. This does not mean that was the only issue.

Amazing how things like this get lost in time..
 
Just to add to the great Enfield Grenade launcher odyssey there are other types..

A Burmese version.. Love the metal stock..

1140394-660x213.jpg

And later ones were wrapped with sheet steel bands..

wm_13212277.jpg

And some folks even made Grenade launchers out of carbines..

jungle-carbine-24.jpg
 
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