Stinking springfields? Awful Armscorps?

[CPS1]

I'm looking to buy/build a M1a/M14. That said, for me reliability is paramount. I would like it if the rifle could shoot about 2 moa or less, but really I'm not the best shot in the world so accuracy is taking a back seat to reliability. As far as reliabity goes, I looking for insane reliability: AK reliability, remington 870 reliability, hand it down to your great grandkids reliability. I wondering what the best path to take would be. I searched for M1A on this board, and read all the threads pertaining to this subject, but I am left more confused than ever. In perticular I am confused about who makes the best reciever. It seems that there was no consensus on this one, and everyone seemed really opionated. All I know for sure is I want a McMillian stock. I have been saving for a while now and have about 2500 to spend. Anyway here are my options as I see them now:

1. Buy an Armscorp straight from armscorp. Get all mil spec except for the reciever. Make the reciever the armcorp double lugged version, and stick it in a Mcmillian stock and get them to do a nice bedding job.

2. Buy a Springfeild supermatch (I guess this errs a little bit more to accuracy than reliability), if anything goes wrong use the springfeild warranty.

3. Buy a Fulton armory, basically the same as option 1 with a Fulton reciever instead of an armscorp one (are they the same thing???)

4. Buy a springfeild standard and have Clint Fowler soup it up with a bedding job, double lug job, and mcmillian stock. (I would lose the springfeild warranty by having work done on the rifle though)

On another note, I am kind of wondering if I should spend my saved money or sell off one of my rifles. It would be nice to for once have a little scratch in the bank, and I have an basically unfired (8rnds) GA Precision M-40A1 copy from George Gardner that's a total safe queen. Maybe I should sell off the the GA precision to finance the purchase of the M1A, and put the saved money in the bank? I paid 3,600 (rifle+scope) when I first bought it, anyone know what I can sell one of these for today (I could not find it in the Blue Book of gun values)? Anyone know of a good place to sell rifles online? Besides the want to sell section of this forum, anyway. Thank you so much, CPS1

 

[Steve Smith]

Between those, Clint Fowler defintely gets the nod. When a good custom builder builds a rifle, you don't need a warranty. The rifle's covered. I'd avoid Foolem Armory, but I'm sure Armscorp can build a decent gun.

BTW, Foolem uses Springfields. Nothing wrong with most SA receivers, and a custom builder like Clint Fowler will true it up anyway.

 

[Sylvilagus Aquaticus]

I've been asking a lot of questions lately about the Armscorp receivers. I think that's what I'm going to go with when I build an M1A. I don't think I need the NM version, but the double-lugged style looks pretty good. I'd invest in a couple of synthetic stocks from Fred's instead of a full-house McMillan for 2 reasons- 1). cost vs. return on investment and 2). Fred appreciates your business and does a lot in return for the cause. I like the little guy.

I owned a Springfield Supermatch years ago. It's not the same rifle today.

Clint Fowler certainly can build a fine rifle.

Regards,
Rabbit.

 

[HankL]

How are the Entreprise arms double lugged receivers holding up? One of those sent to Clint Fowler would make the basis for a great range report and I suspect a great rifle.

 

[Grump]

I don't have much use for a double-lugged receiver, but I also thought the weight was being pushed too far and long-loaded ammo should not be allowed in a Service Rifle match even in slow fire. It's that screw holding it to the stock. Not "service" any more with that type of "internal" modification. Purist? Maybe. Mine's a no-lug and shoots just fine at the 1800 or so round mark.

The lugs hold up better (failures ARE rare) if either welded on before heat treat, or just cast as part of the receiver.

I'd go with Clint Fowler as a known quantity. There are a few ex-USMC match armorers out there I'd go with if they were closer (like an hour's drive or two to personally deliver) and at least one shooter you know can vouch for the quality.

As far as reliability goes, my time on the line years ago showed no difference between "stock" guns and "match" guns. Both choked on bent ammo and duds. Watch that crimp if you're shooting ball reloads on the short line! The only "gun" alibis I ever saw were traceable to poorly-installed parts like op rods rubbing the barrel or the stock, and the very rare mismatch of badly worn hammer/bolt and/or firing pin leg/receiver bridge camming surfaces. Those get ugly when the lube gets ground off (about 35 rounds).

The AKs I've fired get part of their reliability by being severely overpowered in the gas system. Lots of power "margin". The M14 gas system is also overpowered, but far less, and provides excellent compensation for lower-pressure rounds because of the cutoff/gas reservior design. It worked with lighter loads than a fully-adjusted FAL would when I tried it last spring.

Also understand that some NM modifications like the round op rod spring guide are designed to enhance reliability. Less kinking of the spring is supposed to help, though my experiences with standard guides has been zero-jam.

As much as I like the *idea* of having a forged receiver like those fine M1 Garands have, those stories of cracked Springfield receivers are so few and far between to make me believe they really are caused by using abusive ammo. The heat treatment is far more important than the marginal strength gain you get from aligning the steel structures through forging. The advantage of forged just isn't worth $1,000 to me. Heck, the FORGED receiver complete M14 rifles were made for something like $87.50 each in 1958! In today's dollars that would be something like.... Who can look up inflations rates from that year to today? Wild guess, a home that cost $20,000 then now goes for $110,000 now, so 5.5 times that is $481.25. TRW was making a small profit at that price, too. Add $100 for the distributor and $100 for the dealer and you still have a complete rifle for less than $700, including the $20 or full-auto parts.

Buy a used early M1A with all-GI parts and have Clint or someone else build it up for you. Spend $300 or so on any match grade barrel (my Armscorp cost $200 and shoots 1 MOA all day long with Sierras) as part of the deal and you're good.

 

[Mannlicher]

Since ya asked, I would recommend buying a stock Springfield, and just shoot the heck out of it. If it breaks, they will fix it.

I have put over a thousand rounds of Portuguese Mil Surp thorugh mine, with absolultly no problems. Can't say that about some my other rifles.

 

[TODD3465]

I'm with Mannlicher on this. I'll also give the nod towards a GI fiberglass stock from either Fred's or Cheaper Than Dirt.

 

[Kestrel]

Who is Clint Fowler? Does he have a web site?

Also, why stay away from Fulton Armory? I've never used them, so don't know much about them.

What about the guy from Smith Enterprises? (I forget his name.)

Thanks,
Steve