Stock refinish....
- Thread starter viking499
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paducahrider
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- Joined
- Jan 16, 2010
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- 139
Howdy!
Boy!! are you gonna get some opinions!!
First, remove the stock from the barrel and action and remove any accessories from the stock.
After that, I wouldn't start out telling you how to get a finish off until I had an idea of what type of finish is on the stock, and what the stock is made of.
We sort of assume they are wood, but some late models are actually composite materials with "pictures" of wood laminated to their surfaces.
If it's wood, you can start a normal process. If it's not, Good luck!!
A solvent, capabable of dissolving the finish without dissolving the wood, can be either swabbed on, brushed on, rubbed on, or, the whole stock can be soaked in it, depending on several variables.
Relatively soft brushes can help get into nooks and crannies, and a toothbrush works well on checkering, as long as the solvent doesn't dissolve your toothbrush. They make little "knuckleduster" brushes for manicurists, which fit over two or three fingers, and prevent you from scraping the back of a toothbrush across your checkering, and knocking the tips of the diamonds off. They're cheap (or you could consider swiping one from your wife. Heh-Heh-Heh!)
Coarse steel wool will get the finish off but will also remove some wood. 4/0 works for some surfaces without doing too much damage(and then the fight began!), and stay away from wire brushes as they can take off a lot of wood, if you aren't careful.
Whatever implements you use to help get the finish off with should be worked "with the grain" as much as possible to save work later on.
Do not use a pressure washer!!! You may think I'm crazy for mentioning it, but I've seen a stock ruint in about fifteen seconds with one.
A high pressure jet of water will gouge out holes in very hard wood.
The very best advice I would offer is to check into some bookstores and buy some books on this subject.
I'll leave it at that for the present, since I feel that you will be getting lots of advice, soon.
Thanks for your time.
Boy!! are you gonna get some opinions!!
First, remove the stock from the barrel and action and remove any accessories from the stock.
After that, I wouldn't start out telling you how to get a finish off until I had an idea of what type of finish is on the stock, and what the stock is made of.
We sort of assume they are wood, but some late models are actually composite materials with "pictures" of wood laminated to their surfaces.
If it's wood, you can start a normal process. If it's not, Good luck!!
A solvent, capabable of dissolving the finish without dissolving the wood, can be either swabbed on, brushed on, rubbed on, or, the whole stock can be soaked in it, depending on several variables.
Relatively soft brushes can help get into nooks and crannies, and a toothbrush works well on checkering, as long as the solvent doesn't dissolve your toothbrush. They make little "knuckleduster" brushes for manicurists, which fit over two or three fingers, and prevent you from scraping the back of a toothbrush across your checkering, and knocking the tips of the diamonds off. They're cheap (or you could consider swiping one from your wife. Heh-Heh-Heh!)
Coarse steel wool will get the finish off but will also remove some wood. 4/0 works for some surfaces without doing too much damage(and then the fight began!), and stay away from wire brushes as they can take off a lot of wood, if you aren't careful.
Whatever implements you use to help get the finish off with should be worked "with the grain" as much as possible to save work later on.
Do not use a pressure washer!!! You may think I'm crazy for mentioning it, but I've seen a stock ruint in about fifteen seconds with one.
A high pressure jet of water will gouge out holes in very hard wood.
The very best advice I would offer is to check into some bookstores and buy some books on this subject.
I'll leave it at that for the present, since I feel that you will be getting lots of advice, soon.
Thanks for your time.
Last edited:
longdayjake
Member
What is that? I know of a laminate stock, but your description is completely off. Is there another kind of "laminate" that I don't know of?
Al Thompson
Moderator Emeritus
What rifle is it your refinishing? If it's a Remington with the epoxy finish, it can be tough. After you get it stripped and sanded, here's a great finish:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=240961
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=240961
Smith357
Member
I depends on what type of finish it has on it to begin with. If it has an oil, shellac, or laquer finish I would use Formby's Refinisher applyed with 0000 steel wool for the smooth sections and a soft bristle toothbrush for the checkering. If it has a thick glassy or satin poly finish it will need a heavy duty poly stripper and a lot of care not to damage the checkering.
jimmyraythomason
Member
+10000!
It is a wood stock. Walnut. It is on a 99 model CZ I just picked up. Lots of little marks. Most will probably not steam out, but would sand out easily. Though about stripping it, sanding and refinishing. Not sure what type of stain/finish that CZ uses......
Here comes a can of worms...
IF IT'S AN OIL FINISH
Easy Off oven cleaner. I have just seriously upset some people who believe Easy Off has no place in a refinisher's tool box. But there are credible sources that advocate it. I first learned about it from a gunsmithing book no less ("Gunsmithing: Rifles" by Patrick Sweeny - an excellent book by the way). I have since used it on two refinishes and had outstanding results.
Take the stock (all metal removed) outside and give it a healthy spray of Easy Off. Wait 5-10 minutes (closer to 5, NO MORE THAN 10 MINUTES!!!) then wash it off thoroughly with a hose. Make sure no Easy Off is remaining. Repeat once if necessary (I never had to). All surface crap will be gone, and even very deep oil will be fully extracted, leaving a nice clean palate to work on. This method is super fast, easy, cheap, and most importantly you don't have to remove any wood.
My latest refinish was with a laminated stock, and I decided not to use Easy Off as I have heard that it could damage the glue. After surface cleaning/stripping, to remove the soaked-in oil I used a product called whiting instead of the Easy Off. It was FAR more time consuming and labor intensive, but I had no other choice.
If you also have to go the whiting route, here's a money saving tip that I discovered midway through my project: whiting is nothing more than powdered chalk. You can order "whiting" from a place like Brownells, or you can go to home depot or Lowes and can get white powdered chalk (do not use the colored stuff) that is sold for chalk lines. Pound for pound it's only slightly cheaper at the hardware store, but you can get it in smaller quantities so you don't end up spending $25 to order a big tub when you only need $15 worth.
Have fun with the refinish!
IF IT'S AN OIL FINISH
Easy Off oven cleaner. I have just seriously upset some people who believe Easy Off has no place in a refinisher's tool box. But there are credible sources that advocate it. I first learned about it from a gunsmithing book no less ("Gunsmithing: Rifles" by Patrick Sweeny - an excellent book by the way). I have since used it on two refinishes and had outstanding results.
Take the stock (all metal removed) outside and give it a healthy spray of Easy Off. Wait 5-10 minutes (closer to 5, NO MORE THAN 10 MINUTES!!!) then wash it off thoroughly with a hose. Make sure no Easy Off is remaining. Repeat once if necessary (I never had to). All surface crap will be gone, and even very deep oil will be fully extracted, leaving a nice clean palate to work on. This method is super fast, easy, cheap, and most importantly you don't have to remove any wood.
My latest refinish was with a laminated stock, and I decided not to use Easy Off as I have heard that it could damage the glue. After surface cleaning/stripping, to remove the soaked-in oil I used a product called whiting instead of the Easy Off. It was FAR more time consuming and labor intensive, but I had no other choice.
If you also have to go the whiting route, here's a money saving tip that I discovered midway through my project: whiting is nothing more than powdered chalk. You can order "whiting" from a place like Brownells, or you can go to home depot or Lowes and can get white powdered chalk (do not use the colored stuff) that is sold for chalk lines. Pound for pound it's only slightly cheaper at the hardware store, but you can get it in smaller quantities so you don't end up spending $25 to order a big tub when you only need $15 worth.
Have fun with the refinish!
jimmyraythomason
Member
I use Kutz-it stripper on oil type finishes but it doesn't work on epoxy finishes. For epoxy/polyurethane finishes I use Mar-hyde brand "Tal-Strip" paint remover from auto parts/autobody shops. I buy mine from Advance Auto Parts. USE IN A WELL VENTILATED AREA!
paducahrider
Member
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2010
- Messages
- 139
Laminate?
Howdy!
To longdayjack:
Laminates come in many forms. The one with which most shooters are familiar, consists of multiple layers of wood, of the same or different types and thicknesses, bonded together for a more stable stock.
However, since a laminate is simply a layer of something; a laminated structure can have many configurations. Many kitchen cabinets consist of a top surface sheet, selected for its durability and looks, laminated over any of a number of core materials. Laminated plywood can be used for the base of the laminate, or composite sheet goods like particleboard or flakeboard can also be used. This same process has been used for gunstocks, both cheap and relatively expensive.
Some time back, some firearms manufacturers experimented with a composite cored stock (like a high grade particle board), then "laminated" an outer sheet to it, as a means of making it "look" like a very nice piece of figured walnut.
That outer layer was, in essence, merely a picture of a nice piece of wood, with an adhesive backing. I do not know how many companies used this process, but I believe Browning had some in production for a while. I am unaware if anyone is still using the process, but the guns are still out there. It's just a much cheaper way of creating a nice "looking" stock, without the expense of all the cost of high priced wood and finishing procedures.
If you make the mistake of starting to sand on or dissolve finish from one of these stocks, you'll quickly remove the "photo" and find that there's no "wood" beneath it. I have no idea if the "photo" could be replaced, but I doubt if it could be done to a high standard.
It's probably not something that is common, but I would try to look at the unfinished parts of a stock, where the barrel and action fit, to insure that I was actually working on a piece of wood. It shouldn't take but a moment to make a determination.
Thanks for your time.
Howdy!
To longdayjack:
Laminates come in many forms. The one with which most shooters are familiar, consists of multiple layers of wood, of the same or different types and thicknesses, bonded together for a more stable stock.
However, since a laminate is simply a layer of something; a laminated structure can have many configurations. Many kitchen cabinets consist of a top surface sheet, selected for its durability and looks, laminated over any of a number of core materials. Laminated plywood can be used for the base of the laminate, or composite sheet goods like particleboard or flakeboard can also be used. This same process has been used for gunstocks, both cheap and relatively expensive.
Some time back, some firearms manufacturers experimented with a composite cored stock (like a high grade particle board), then "laminated" an outer sheet to it, as a means of making it "look" like a very nice piece of figured walnut.
That outer layer was, in essence, merely a picture of a nice piece of wood, with an adhesive backing. I do not know how many companies used this process, but I believe Browning had some in production for a while. I am unaware if anyone is still using the process, but the guns are still out there. It's just a much cheaper way of creating a nice "looking" stock, without the expense of all the cost of high priced wood and finishing procedures.
If you make the mistake of starting to sand on or dissolve finish from one of these stocks, you'll quickly remove the "photo" and find that there's no "wood" beneath it. I have no idea if the "photo" could be replaced, but I doubt if it could be done to a high standard.
It's probably not something that is common, but I would try to look at the unfinished parts of a stock, where the barrel and action fit, to insure that I was actually working on a piece of wood. It shouldn't take but a moment to make a determination.
Thanks for your time.
Last edited:
paducahrider
Member
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2010
- Messages
- 139
howdy!
To 4288;
WEAR GOGGLES AND CHEMICAL RESISTANT GLOVES!!!!!
Easy Off has been used by furniture strippers for decades, and although, as you pointed out, you must be aware of how long you subject the wood to the process, it WILL take off many finisnes.
It is basically a form of lye (sodium hydroxide?), which some old time gunsmiths used as a degreaser prior to blueing.
One tip, when using it: make sure you have not washed the stock just prior to application, nor have any water on it, as this will severely reduce the effectiveness, since it works best on a dry surface. The process also should be done outside, for two reasons;
1. The vapors produced are not only toxic, but stink and release hydrogen, which can burn or explode.
2. The sunlight will improve the action of the chemicals.
Another tip is to use a mild acid solution to neutralize the activity of the caustic Eazy Off (it's a base), once the Eazy Off has been rinsed away.
A little vinegar water works, since it is a weak form of acid (acetic?).
Failure to do so will allow the wood to be gradually weakened, over a period of years.
A good rinse wth warm water alone may work, but the vinegar is cheap insurance, which takes almost no extra time or expense. Be sure to rinse it off thoroughly also.
I found that it was best to spray it on and let it set, then gently scrape with wood or plastic scrapers(toothpicks and tongue depressors work, and can be whittled into shapes which get into nooks and crannies, then rinse. The wood can be softened by the chemical action, so don't poke or scrub it very hard. Once the process is over, you'll need to sand down the grain, which will have been raised by the water. This process may need repeating until the grain doesn't raise anymore. Failure to do this will result in the grain raising later, as it absorbs humidity, after the finish has been applied.
This often-omitted process is called "whiskering", for those who wish to search further into finishing techniques.
I wouldn't use this process on my best rifle stock first. I'd wait until until I learned a bit more in how to use it, but Eazy Off type products can be useful,just read the instructions and work safely.
Thanks for your time.
To 4288;
WEAR GOGGLES AND CHEMICAL RESISTANT GLOVES!!!!!
Easy Off has been used by furniture strippers for decades, and although, as you pointed out, you must be aware of how long you subject the wood to the process, it WILL take off many finisnes.
It is basically a form of lye (sodium hydroxide?), which some old time gunsmiths used as a degreaser prior to blueing.
One tip, when using it: make sure you have not washed the stock just prior to application, nor have any water on it, as this will severely reduce the effectiveness, since it works best on a dry surface. The process also should be done outside, for two reasons;
1. The vapors produced are not only toxic, but stink and release hydrogen, which can burn or explode.
2. The sunlight will improve the action of the chemicals.
Another tip is to use a mild acid solution to neutralize the activity of the caustic Eazy Off (it's a base), once the Eazy Off has been rinsed away.
A little vinegar water works, since it is a weak form of acid (acetic?).
Failure to do so will allow the wood to be gradually weakened, over a period of years.
A good rinse wth warm water alone may work, but the vinegar is cheap insurance, which takes almost no extra time or expense. Be sure to rinse it off thoroughly also.
I found that it was best to spray it on and let it set, then gently scrape with wood or plastic scrapers(toothpicks and tongue depressors work, and can be whittled into shapes which get into nooks and crannies, then rinse. The wood can be softened by the chemical action, so don't poke or scrub it very hard. Once the process is over, you'll need to sand down the grain, which will have been raised by the water. This process may need repeating until the grain doesn't raise anymore. Failure to do this will result in the grain raising later, as it absorbs humidity, after the finish has been applied.
This often-omitted process is called "whiskering", for those who wish to search further into finishing techniques.
I wouldn't use this process on my best rifle stock first. I'd wait until until I learned a bit more in how to use it, but Eazy Off type products can be useful,just read the instructions and work safely.
Thanks for your time.
Last edited:
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