Strange reloading "whoops"

[dmftoy1]

So today I sat down to replenish my .50 S&W supply and got everything setup. The first 100 rounds went smooth as all get out, but at round 48 in the next 50 I felt a bit of resistance while resizing a case. I backed it down out of the die but didn't see anything wrong so I finished resizing it and finished out the last 2 of the set. I did inspect it and it was strange as it looked like the base maybe 1/2 inch up had resized slight different than the others (a slightly brighter ring in that area).

Anyway, went on to bell the mouths and got down to weighing individual powder charges for each case. (I'm trying a load for 500 gr. JHP's with H110). As I finished up weighing all my powder charges I held the loading block up under a bright light to visually inspect the powder levels and low and behold I had double charged one . . . no problem I thought and dispensed another charge into that case and put it back into the loading block . ..wait a minute . .I double charged it again . . .how could that happen?

I decided now was a good time to take a step back and think through this. I dumped the powder and got out my magnifying glass and started going over the case with a fine tooth comb. (also dispensed and weigh'd another charge and it was exactly right). The one thing that jumped out at me was the bright shiny ring about 1/2 inch up from the base . . . .

Looked inside and with the magnifying glass I could see a faint line about 1/2 inch down from the top of the case . .looking closer it dawned on me that there was a .45 acp case INSIDE the .50 S&W case . . . .i was a bit stumped and looked to make sure I had actually reprimed this casing and sure enough I had.

What had happened was that on case 48 when I felt the reistance and backed it out of the sizing die I had actually deprimed the .45 acp case INSIDE the .50 S&W. Running the case back up into the sizing die and applying a little more pressure than normal and I actually deprimed through the .45 acp, shoved it's primer aside and deprimed the .50 S&W. I wouldn't have thought this possible but the depriming "pin" on the bottom of the decapping rod for the .50 S&W resizing die is abnormally long . .so it was able to do it.

VERY STRANGE. Anyway, I corrected my mistake and was trying to figure out what would've really happened if that one had gotten past me. I "think" it would've been a squib because I doubt if the primer would've ignited the powder through two flashholes but who knows . . . .

Just thought I'd share. Strangest thing that's happened to me I think.

Have a good one,
Dave

 

[Mal H]

That is a strange one, indeed!

Long ago I learned to not tumble cases of different calibers if one can nest inside another, for example 9mm and .45 Colt. I've had them nest prior to stopping that practice, but I don't think one ever got past my inspection of the cleaned cases.

I think the probability is high that the powder would have ignited in spite of having to traverse two flash holes. Of course with H110, ignition is a little more difficult. What would have happened is anyone's guess. I think the .45 case might have stayed in the bottom of the .500 unless a substantial amount of powder had worked its way under it.

 

[JackOfAllTradesMasterAtNone]

I caught myself at this same situation a few years ago. A .40 case was wedged polishing media inside a 44mag case. I caught it before powder charging. I had decapped/sized the mag cases. Tossed them in the tumbler. I was unaware there were any other cases in the corn media. All shiny, I took all the WW .44mag cases to prime with Lee hand primer. This is where I inspect for media stuck in the flash holes. Caught the oops right then. I would think in many instances that a primer -if there's sufficient exposure to powder, that the powder would ignite. Squib? Maybe, but it could have been that the .45acp case would take up .500 case space, enough so that nearly or a full charge of powder would have ended up compressed once a bullet was seated. Could have been a very dangerous 'go boom' situation.

There's great need to inspect brass when removing it from the tumbler.

-Steve

 

[Walkalong]

Never had it get that far. Inspect them when you take them out of the tumbler, inspect them when you prime them, inspect them as you put them in the shellplate. See the proper powder charge in every case as you sit a bullet in the case. I'm anal about carefull. I'm not to worried about speed.

 

[Brillo]

My guess

Very interesting and thanks for bringing the situation to our attention. My guess is that, had you not been paying attention to your powder levels, the primer would have set off the H110 above the 45 case. I think initially the primer ignition might have pushed the entire load out very slightly and when the main charge ignited it would have propelled the bullet completely out, perhaps at some degree of velocity. But the 45 case would have been driven back hard into the larger case, expanding its base. And you would have had a tough time removing it from the cylinder.

In my early days of reloading 44 mags, when I bought a lot of "once fired" cases, I would find quite a few with 9 mm cases inside them. Never tried decapping one though. Don't think my depriming pin had enough reach to do that. Merry Christmas and have a great New Year full of shooting.

 

[armoredman]

Interesting. Could have been very dangerous.

 

[ReloaderFred]

About 20 or so years ago, there was an article in one of the gun magazines about placing a case inside the 45-70 case to take up space so small amounts of smokeless powder could be used to duplicate the old black powder loads. This isn't the same as what occured in your case, but the principal is the same. There were loads listed, along with pictures of how to swage the pistol case inside the 45-70 case properly.

In the case of the .50 S&W, the volume of the case would have been reduced by quite a bit, thereby increasing pressures accordingly. My guess is the powder would have been ignited and the round would have gone off. I don't know if the resultant pressures would have exceeded those of a proof load, but I know I wouldn't want to find out.

Quality control is important when loading any ammunition, and that means inspecting it through the various steps. You did good in catching this problem and bringing it to the attention of those just starting out in reloading, and as a reminder to those of us who have been at it awhile.

As an aside, I regularly tumble brass of different sizes in the same batch. I sort all my brass by caliber prior to tumbling, after I've shaken it in a tray made from 1/4" construction cloth to remove sand and debris. I try to mix brass that won't fit inside one another, but sometimes do mix .45's with something smaller. I've found that if I put the .45 brass in the running tumbler first and let it fill with media, I can then put in the smaller brass and very, very seldom get them stuck inside one another. My practice is to usually tumble .38's, or something similar in length, with the .45's. If the smaller in diameter brass is longer than the larger diameter brass, it's easier to see if one is inside the other.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[dmftoy1]

Yeah, I found this one interesting in that it's the closest I've come to a major "whoops" while reloading. (my previous worst was I tried to seat a bullet in a .45 case that had a split neck and didn't catch it until I was putting the bullets in the boxes). I guess it just goes to show that all the checks they recommend in the manuals have their place. I think i could've pretty easily seated a bullet on this case as there was enough space BUT it was definately at a higher level than any other case in the block. I think the biggest thing I learned was that when I felt the one that was "different" when I was resizing to spend even more time trying to figure out why . . .although it was damned near impossible to see anything wrong other than the bright ring . ..the edge of the case inside the .50 S&S was very flush with the sides and the primer flash hole looked the same as every other case just about 1/2 inch "higher".

I think I'll probably go back to cleaning a single caliber at a time.

Have a good one,
Dave

 

[win71]

Here's another

About two weeks ago I decided to load up some 38 special rounds. Now get this, I had roughly 1000 empty once fired wad cutter brass that had been sitting around over 20 years. Started sizing and decapping and everything went fine for the first 200 or so. Next thing I know a case stops about half way into the die. I backed off and tried again with the same results. I pulled the case out and it looked fine with the spent primer still in place. I set it aside and put another case in. Same thing. Pulled it out and that primer was still in place. I thought about it for a second and thought maybe the decapping pin must have bent or broken or something. So, I unscrewed the die and started screwing the decapping pin out. All at once I look and there's something sticking out of the bottom of the die. Got your interest now?? It was a 148 gr. wad cutter impelled on the decapping pin. It took two pair of pliers and a lot of straining to get it off. I re-checked the original case that started this scenario and the primer was spent and had burned. The only thing I can think of is the factory loaded it without powder. Either that or somebody elses uncharged loaded wad cutter somehow got into the bunch. I was using a Rock Chucker and moving pretty fast and obviously didn't notice the additional weight of the case. All the cases had been put through a tumbler years ago and I didn't notice it then either.