Suggestion concerning malfunctioning guns

[Mixlesplick]

When posting a question about malfunctioning guns it might be easier for other members to help diagnose the problem if as many details as possible are included in the first post.

What kind of gun? New or used?
What kind of malfunction? FTF, FTE, double feed, etc.
What kind of magazines? Are they knew or old, factory or aftermarket? Is it jamming on the last round, etc?
What kind of ammo is being used?
Does it only jam when the gun is dirty or clean, and how often?

I noticed that many of these questions are eventually asked anyway before members can give suggestions. The devil is in the details.

I am not a gunsmith and usually don't have the knowledge to contribute to these posts but I do learn from them.

 

[Morgan]

Agreed, and don't use FTF or FTE - spell it out.

FTF can mean failure to feed or failure to fire.

FTE can mean failure to eject or failure to extract.

 

[foghornl]

FTFire or FTFeed

FTEx for Extract, FTEj for eject works for me.

As was pointed out, Devil is in the Details.

 

[1911Tuner]

Details

Understand the difference between Failure to Feed and Failure to Return/Go to Battery. If the round gets into the chamber at all, it's a failure to return/go to battery. If it doesn't get to the chamber, it's a failure to feed.
The two are different...and usually caused by different issues, though sometimes related.

 

[wally]

What kind of malfunction? FTF, FTE, double feed, etc.

Assumes the poster knows the difference, but otherwise a good idea. Perhaps a sticky thread with photos of the various failures and descriptions.

I've posted a few photos of a "nose up jam" aka "ride over feed" or "bolt over base" failure with my Springfield Ultra Compact (Para P12 clone).

If you can search for jpeg titles in posts by me try searching for:
NoseUpJam.jpg or SAjam2.jpg

--wally.

Edit: Search doesn't seem to find image tags. Here is one thread where I posted a photo of a ride over feed jam: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=134740&highlight=Springfield+Micro

 

[1911Tuner]

The Difference

Also note that "Rideover Feed" and "Bolt-over-Base Feed" are related, but are not the same. Both are caused by magazine timing or too-fast slide RTB speeds. The Bolt-Over results in the nose up/caught between the breechface and hood, while the Rideover hits further forward on the case, jamming it between the underside of the slide's center rail, the mag follower, and the feed ramp...and sometimes jams hard. The Bolt-Over is dangerous. If the round gets caught high enough, the primer can pressure detonate and you have a miniature fragmentation device firing right there in front of your face.

 

[wally]

The differences would be much clearer with photos to illustrate. Which would you call the jam shown in the photo I linked of my sprinfield?

I'm not seeing what can hit the primer to set it off once the slide passes over the rim of the cartridge -- unless its the dimple on the follower

--wally.

 

[1911Tuner]

re:

Wally,

I'll go have a look about 0400 when I rise and shine...The detonation can occur as a result of side impact if the round gets caught high between the slide and barrel hood. I've known of this happening once, though I didn't see it. The guy who told me about it was lucky. Shooting glasses probably saved his left eye, but he did get a few small shards in the schnozz, wrist one cheek and the kisser. Scary stuff.

 

[1911Tuner]

Wally's Picture

Sorry for the holdup in getin' to that photo, Wally. That's a bolt-over. The
bottom of the slide's center rail catches the round in the extractor groove,
pushes the butt down and the nose hits the feed ramp and stands up. Yours is one of the lowest ones that I've seen. Most of'em leave half to two thirds of the round above the port. Yours looks like it was almost a rideover because the round is so low in the port. The slide probably hit the case at the forward point of the extractor groove.

The true rideover is a complete failure to feed. The slide catches the round
about mid-way, and pushes it forward under friction until it hits the feed ramp, and the case rim is often still in the magazine. The slide's momentum and the recoil spring tension gouges the case deeply and wedges the round in solidly...sometimes to the point that it's hard to retract the slide to clear it.
I've had to place the recoil spring plug against a olid object and whack the
grip in order to get the slide to move.

The Rideover constitutes the true jam. Most failures to feed and failures to extract/eject aren't really jams...just stoppages. Jams do what they imply...
They lock the gun up to the point that it takes more effort to clear than racking the slide and shaking out the offending round or empty case.

 

[wally]

Thanks for the distinction, seems its the same problem -- timing between slide and mag spring is off so the rounds are not in the proper position in the mag when the slide comes forward, but different due to the fine print details of where the slide ends up catching the round.

I've never had one of these in a single stack 1911, but find they are quite common in double stack 1911 style guns. Cleaning the mag is sometimes the solution as dirt or fouling can cause the rounds to bind at the single-to- double-stack transition, but usually it means its time for new mag springs.

--wally.