Suppressor data thread to document the effects of adding a suppressor to a rifle.

[MCMXI]

I get the impression that many people who either consider buying or do buy a suppressor have little idea as to how a suppressor will affect rifle performance. I certainly have/had no idea as to how loud one will sound, how much it might affect POA/POI, how much it will affect group size, what I might see in POI shift when I remove and reattach the suppressor, etc. Many seem to focus only on dB with numerous YouTube channels dedicated to suppressor reviews that address sound, attachment, dimensions etc., but few that address the other important variables. Of the three rifle suppressors I have I've only used one so far, and only on one rifle, so my experience is limited. I have two more rifle suppressors on order so hope to add to this thread over the months with my personal experience. With that in mind I'm hoping that some "scientific" data might help members here have a better idea of what to expect. dB data is hard to obtain and virtually meaningless unless the test conditions are the same but the variables below are generally much easier to obtain and quantify. If I obtain more data for a specific configuration I will update the data in a post if I'm still able to edit. If not, I'll start a new post that references the original configuration. Finally, I have no dog in this race. I will NEVER "massage" the data to make a suppressor or rifle appear to be better than they are so let the chips fall where they may. I look forward to seeing data from others to help me make an informed decision in the future. I'm in the process of obtaining my FFL and SOT so that I can sell and manufacture suppressors and I have no financial stake in any brand.

Rifle: POF P308
Cartridge .308 Win
Barrel length: 20"
Optic: Leupold Mark 4 3.5-10x40mm FFP M5
Suppressor: AAC 762-SDN-6
Attachment method: 51T Blackout flash hider
Ammunition: Remington Hog Hammer 168gr Barnes TSX
Range: 100 yards
Average group size/# of groups/# of rounds per group unsuppressed: 1.497 moa/2/3 & 4
Average group size/# of groups/#of rounds per group suppressed: 0.599 moa/1/3
Average POI shift suppressed H/V: -0.352"/0.469"
Average group size/# of groups/# of rounds per group suppressed after reattaching suppressor: 0.863 moa/1/3
Average POI shift suppressed compared to first suppressed group H/V: -0.692"/0.119"
Suppressor indexed back to same location Y/N: Y
Weather conditions: 78°F, 25% RH, 3,250' elevation, DA = ?, 2~5mph wind full value.
Comments: All rounds fed from magazine, targets shot prone off a bipod with a rear bean bag. Minimal cooling of suppressor and barrel.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

I don't have as specific information. I am on a trust and was able to test out a suppressor and had less than ideal results.

Rifle: Alexander Arms 6.5 Grendel Upper
Barrel length: 20"
Optic: Pulsar N750
Suppressor: AAC 762 (don't know which one)
Attachment method: AAC 300 flash hider
Ammunition: Hornady Grendel 123 gr. SST
Range: 100 yards
Average group size/# of groups/# of rounds per group unsuppressed: ~ 1 moa
Average group size/# of groups/#of rounds per group suppressed: 2 moa
Average POI shift suppressed H/V: 2" Right/-3"
Suppressor indexed back to same location Y/N: Y

Comments: Tested suppressor on 2 days, back to back with same results. Basically, it was a significant change to add the suppressor. Opted NOT to hunt with it because of the radical POI change.

Did some checking on various forums and found that results are all over the board when people use suppressors. Some have very good luck like the OP and have little POI change between suppressed and unsuppressed and have groups tighten up. Others, like me, found that things changed significantly. Then others had some combo, such as little POI shift, but groups opened, or POI shift and groups tightened.

Some folks with poor results found that changes of ammo produced better results. I didn't have that opportunity to try.

 

[MCMXI]

Double Naught Spy, that's a horror story right there! 1 moa to 2 moa combined with a poi shift of 2" right and 3" down!! The groups opening up would bother me more than the poi shift assuming that the shift was repeatable but I would not be happy with that suppressor. I would do some serious load development or try another factory load under those circumstances. Hopefully I don't see anything close to that with my other suppressors and rifles.

 

[Casefull]

Thanks for info. I am looking to suppress my 308's also. I am working on subsonic loads which are not loud with out a suppressor. Your group tightened up a lot if I am reading your info correctly. I am going to try some cast 230g bullets. I was getting around 1050 fps with 168g.

 

[Medusa]

Rifle: Tikka T3 Tac
Barrel length: 24"
Optic: S&B PMII 3-12 USMC
Suppressor: Ase Utra SL7 (Finnish mfg)
Attachment method: direct thread on barrel
Ammunition: Sellier&Bellot 300 WM 168 grain HPBT, v0 approx 920 m/s
Range: 100-1000 m
Average group size unsuppressed/suppressed: have seen no difference, sub-moa (from 1/3 to 3/4), over all the range, up to transsonic region.
Average POI shift suppressed H/V: lowers 2 cm @100 m
Suppressor indexed back to same location Y/N: N - as a thread-on, I turn it until snug, probably indexed close enough, no shift in zero from unscrewing the supressor and screwing it back on
Weather conditions: various, from -20 Celsius to +35 Celsius, wind various, from zero to 10 m/s full value.

Comments: All rounds fed from magazine, targets shot prone off a bipod, mostly, mix in some unconventional positions. Minimal cooling of suppressor and barrel (less than a minute between shots).

I do say the 300 WM in a light rifle (a tad over 5 kg empty, little below 5 3/4 kg with SL7) kicks a lot (even with the light load), and SL7 tames it quite nicely. I can shoot without muffs all day, even under the roof, it does not sting the ears, just a POOOOOOF. Does heat up fast though, give it 3-4 rounds in couple of minutes and I can see the mirage. But since it is one of the lightest magnum-rated cans, it is awesome.

When I attached it to my VZ.58, then the impact shift was about 1 meter to the right @100 m, but I suspect the mount more on that (an adapter to bring the original factory M14 to M18 thread not being exactly concentric to the bore, but slightly canted)

 

[MCMXI]

Medusa, thanks for the data. I've never heard of Ase Utra and they don't list a distributor for the US. Did the suppressor improve grouping with the Vz.58? You mention a considerable POI shift but how about group size?

I'm really interested in data that shows the same suppressor on different rifles. I'm going to use the 762-SDN-6 on my FAL and am hoping that it improves group size as it did with the POF. I'm going to test one of my AIs this weekend (AI AW .308 Win) with an AAC MK13-SD to see how it does.

 

[MCMXI]

I was really hoping to get some data this weekend with one of my AI rifles and an AAC MK13-SD suppressor but didn't manage to install the 90T muzzle brake adapter. The shim kit that AAC supplies is totaly useless so after an hour and a half of frustration I gave up . I'm in the process of looking for shims that will work with the AI M18x1.5 threads.

 

[Medusa]

Hi, the Ase Utra is one of the most common and one of the best suppressor manufacturers, with another, BR Tuote, in this part of the world. That's why I added this, so european members could get some relevant info about that as well.

With the VZ I did not shoot for groups, due the considerable POI shift I focused on that, anyway without putting a measure tape on groups I did not notice any difference. With the 300 WM the suppressor did help some with the groups, but I would rather say it was because of lesser and gentler recoil than any ballistic influence. I shot my 5 (+little) kg rifle for a year with plain barrel and man that was intense, nothing drastic but getting sub-moa groups was a bit of a challenge at first, so to say.

Experience with other rifles with the Ase Utra production have also been similar - tames the recoil and concussion on bigger calibers, if there is any group size difference then in positive way, quite light for the influence these have