Surplus Powders

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bubbacrabb

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Hello, I'm about to make a big order on powder. I've been researching 844 that I found on wideners website. has anyone used this? I plan on loading it in 223/556. I know with surplus powders you really have to work a load because they're different lot to lot. The price is pretty tempting to try though. They have 844 and 846, and Ive read from other forums that 844 is very similar to H335. As I understand it there is not load data available so the foot work is on you. I hope someone that has any knowledge on this can give me some insight. Take care fellas thanks for any help.
 
I've used the 844 from Wideners and have found it just about identical to H335. I had some concerns there'd be some differences and began loading at the low end of the scale. To date no problems. My experience is that you can use the H335 load data with no problem. The price is right.
 
If you are buying the 32lbs to get the deal, one of the things I will recommend, and have done myself, if you plan on keeping the full 32lbs, is to mix all them together somehow (really really really big bucket). If you get a different Lot number somehow with so much powder, it will really help you down the road so you wont have to work up another load. Mix it all toghether, and then pour them back in each jug, work up your load once, and you will not have to do that ever again with that order. Its good stuff, i am tempted to buy some and sell half of it.
 
Do not mix powders. If it is the same lot it is probably no big deal but if it has a different burn rate just slightly you will get one charge that is safe at 25gn & the next may blow your primers or worse. In small amounts(less then 1lb) you my get it mixed good enough to get by but not 30lb.

Dry powders are hard to mix to an even placement. Take some brown sugar & some white granulated mix them together & see how hard it is to get them mixed the same all the way through. At least it is different colors so you can see what needs moved where.
 
It would be 48 pounds for the hazmat deal, and I'm only looking at buying 16 of it and a case of wolf primers and maybe some pistol primers. I wouldnt be mixing anything. I'm ok with working a load up. I'm just trying to decide if its worth the risk to save a few bucks.
 
WC-844 is indeed the military equivalent to canister grade H-335. It varies from lot to lot because of the different time periods it may have been originally loaded at. Most of it now is pull-down powder, meaning it was loaded in,(probably), .223 shells, then disassembled. IF you were to get new powder, never loaded before, it would still need to be treated as an unknown burn rate CLOSE TO H-335.

It works great in .223 AND anywhere else H-335 can be used. As for mixing it all together, it's highly unlikely you would get different lot #'s in a 4 jug order.
 
I have found H335 useful for 223 and 308 overloading experiments.
It has a high speed - density product.

I am not buying more, because right now I am concentrating on long range shooting, and I want a more temperature stable powder, like H4198, H4350, H4895, and Varget.
 
My last venture with surplus powdeers goes back ca. 40+ years to 4831 purchased from Hodgdon in a 100 lb keg for $50. WEe used it it everything from 243 Winchester to 375 H&H. Some friends also used it for reduced loads in older cartrdges.
 
I bought a significant quantity of both 844 and 846 two years ago. I've worked up loads in 5.56 and 7.62 both, and found the powders to be virtually identical to the commerical equivalents. Both are a dream to measure which means every load is highly consistent. Buy a bunch of it, because pretty soon it's going to all be gone and you'll wish you had more. Just ask the seller to make sure you get all the same lot number. I think they buy it in many ton quantities so that should not be an issue.
 
I have loaded some in my .303 British and while it meters well, it seems a little quick burning for that ctg. even though there is lots of data for it. It is very accurate.
 
Thanks everyone. I ordered 16 lbs of it. I'm sure ill figure some stuff to do with it. The price was right and its part of my stock up idea. Even if there ain't a shortage I'm noticing things ain't gettin cheaper and stored properly all this stuff should last me a long while.
 
I know where wideners gets their pulled powder from. Its already all mixed together. You aren't going to get different lots. All the pulled powder goes into huge barrels and then they package it into 8lb kegs.
 
I love the 844......been using it to load my plinking 223 loads for awhile now. Combined with cheap Wolf primers you can really save some money.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2
 
WC844 is a good choice for your .223 ammo whereas WC846 is probably a better choice for your .308 ammo.
bubbacrabb said:
I'm just trying to decide if its worth the risk to save a few bucks.
Click to expand...
I see no risk in buying that powder. It's perfectly fine and if it weren't it wouldn't be used in military ammo. The only think you need to do is make sure your charge weight is safe because each lot is slightly different but then again, so are different lots of commercial powders.

Save the money and have fun shooting your AR...
 
Anybody tried SMP-842 yet? I'm about to order a couple of jugs, and maybe a jug of WC846.

Do these powders need magnum primers in .223? (I have large magnum primers for using the 846 in .30-06 loads, but all my SR primers are regular ones, mostly Wolf and Federal)
 
I have used/am using WC-844 and it is H335. So far, my lot has been good with the H335 data I developed over the years. I use WC-846 for 7.62x51 ammo.
 
So I guess no one's afraid to stock up on something that may have been pulled for the very reason of being past its "use by" date?

I've read of a complaint before of surplus IMR4895 going bad right away. In this case, the guy was getting green corrosion on the base of his bullets. This might shoot just fine for the short term. But when you start talking about stocking up on surplus powders, I think that might end badly. I'd only buy surplus powders if I actually expected to shoot it up within the next 5-10 years, anyways.

You know what they say. When the powder turns reddish and smells acrid, it's time to dump it. It must be happening to someone, somewhere. The military has learned to rotate stock at a certain point, before it happens. How much longer is it good for? Surely it's fine for immediate use. For long term stocking in huge quantities, I'm not convinced it would be so good a deal.

This is probably another reason NOT to mix lots of surplus powder, BTW. In the IMR anecdote I read, HALF the guy's powder went bad. The other half was ok.
 
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I just bought 32 lbs of 844 from Hi-tech and am 100% satisfied. I requested and received 4 kegs of the same lot.

I had used some h335 with great success in my AR. As far as I can tell I got a slower lot of 844 since it took 26.4 grains to get the same velocity I got out of 25 grains of h335 using the exact components except for powder. Im getting the same great accuracy with this load as well.

Before anyone asks, yes I chronoed the h335 and 844 on the same day to rule out temp variation as I have heard they are temp sensitive.

In my research many said use a chronograph and work your load up slowly. I agree!
 
Well gloob I guess it depends on how much risk you're willing to take. For the amount of ammo I plan to load the cheaper price is pretty attractive. I only bought 16 lbs though. That's a few years stock, not like a decade worth. At 25 grains for simple math I'm looking at less than 5k rounds. So I imagine this being burnt up fairly quickly. Seams much better than canister powder when its available. I'll let you know my findings. I just can't come up with a logical reason not to buy it if you're a high volume shooter.
 
Also, don't forget that the 'use buy' date on the ammo that is pulled down is NOT the 'it won't work anymore' date but the 'we have a budget that we do not want shrunk so buy more' date. ;)
 
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