Switching to Lead and Hardness ???'s

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codefour

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Well, My shooting has drastically increased since I started reloading. I am getting to the 2,000 rounds a month mark. Especially now that I started using a Pro 2000. These progressives can crank out some ammo.

I am thinking of switching to lead bullets to save $$$. I have no experience loading lead bullets at all. I will only be loading lead in handgun calibers. I always load jacketed, i.e. Montana Gold, Zero, Hornady etc..

Is there anything different to reloading lead.? What are gas checks.? If I load lead due I put a gas check on the bullet then seat it? Or is a gas check something that you only use when moulding your own lead bullets.?

I have been real leery of lead because I hate lead fouling in the bores. What is the hardness rating I need to use to prevent lead fouling.? Do I need to lube Lead bullets or do they come lubed.?

Does anyone recommened a certain type or brand that will not foul the barrel.?

Does anyone have a link to an article about my questions or any input would be appreciated. I know many questions, but thanks in advance.
 
Not much difference between loading lead/jacketed. Gas check are on the base of some home made cast bullet & a few custom cast. GC are not needed for most handguns with velocity under 1400 fps. Bullets will come lubed & with GC if its that type of bullet. As for alloy hardness, depends on what caliber/velocity your shooting.
 
+1

BTW: Gas checks can only be used on bullets already designed to have a place on the base for them to crimp on. You can't just add them to existing bullets unless they came out of a gas-check mold design.

Hardness?
What calibers are we even talking about anyway??

rc
 
codefour, this is "my take" so far (as I am continually learning this "reloading" hobby) to load lead bullets that minimize leading (since you didn't mention pistol/caliber, I'll use 45ACP as an example):

1. First, slug your barrel to determine the groove diameter of the barrel (not the bore diameter that's measured land-to-land).

2. If your 45ACP barrel diameter is .451", you want to order lead bullet diameter that is .001" over (.452") to provide proper bullet-to-barrel fit. If your barrel is .452", you may want to order .453" diameter bullets. If your barrel is larger than .452"-.453", you can also order softer 12 BHN bullets that will deform/expand easier to seal to the larger barrel diameter.

3. Most commercial lead bullets will come with lube unless you order without it.

4. What bullet hardness? I used to shoot 21-24 BHN bullets and found that I needed to push them hard (high to near max load data) to minimize leading. With 18 BHN bullets, I can use mid to high range load data and with 12 BHN bullets, I can use start to high range load data and minimize leading.

5. What OAL? Longer OAL will allow the bearing surface of the bullet to engage the rifling sooner and produce more consistent chamber pressures. More consistent chamber pressures will result in more consistent shot groups/accuracy.

6. You want to first determine the Max OAL of your pistol using your barrel out of the pistol and dropping a dummy round (no powder/primer) into the chamber until the bullet nose don't scrape the rifling (I usually start at SAAMI max).

7. Then you want to determine the Ideal OAL that will feed/chamber reliably from the magazine when the slide is manually released. If the Max OAL don't feed/chamber reliably, incrementally decrease the OAL (say by .005") until it does. The Ideal OAL is the longest OAL that will function well in YOUR pistol to allow the bearing surface of the bullet to engage the rifling sooner.

8. Powder selection. There are many good powders to use for 45 ACP. My favorite is W231/HP-38 (same powder). For 200 gr SWC bullet, I use 5.0 gr, which is mid range as current published load data by Hodgdon is 4.4 gr - 5.6 gr. This powder charge produces mild recoil target loads that are accurate with minimal to no leading, depending on the pistol/barrel used. Depending on the pistol barrel length, recoil spring rate, etc.; you may need to use 5.2 gr - 5.5 gr to reliably cycle the slide.

9. Removing leading. When you are doing load development with lead bullets, you will experience some leading in your barrel. Since switching to 18/12 BHN Missouri Bullet, I either get no leading or very minimal fouling/lead smearing at the chamber end of the barrel. I use old copper bore brush wrapped with copper scrubber strands like Chore boy to remove any leading that I get. Usually, 3-4 strokes back and forth will result in clean and shiny barrel (and God bless whoever came up with this idea!!!).

10. Taper crimp. I am currently working on this. Traditionally, most reloaders used .469"-.470" taper crimp for .452" diameter lead bullets. Since I use Lee dies with combination seating and taper crimp die, this amount of taper crimp sometimes results in shaving the bullet sides. Also, I am finding that not all case wall thickness is precisely at .010" and often vary up to .012"-.013". Due to these reasons, I have started using .472" taper crimp (or .020" added to the diameter of other caliber lead bullets - my 9mm/40S&W loads with .376" and .421" taper crimped rounds still fall freely into the tight chambers of Lone Wolf barrels).

Any less, I am finding that I am post-sizing my lead bullets, especially with thicker walled cases.

11. Lee Factory Crimp Die for pistol. Although I am a fan of Lee products, I do not endorse the FCD for lead bullets due to the reason discussed in #10. If FCD reduces the diameter of the bullet, it will lessen the bullet-to-barrel fit and result in gas-cutting and leading. I want my case neck to expand to the chamber and bullet's bearing surface to engage the rifling as soon as possible to generate consistent chamber pressures with the least amount of high pressure gas leak. I see FCD counter productive in this regard (for push-through resizing of bulged cases in 40/45, they are great!).

I hope this helped.
 
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I also load on a PRO2000, great press with LEE dies. To answer your question, you don`t need to get worried about lead bullets, No need to slug your barrel for most handgun loads, your barrel is most likely in spec so most standard sized cast bullets will work fine with published loads, give or take a little. I load and shoot mostly 45acp and 38 spl. The 45s are 200gr swc from http://www.mastercast.net/ (17/18 BHN) and the 38s are 148gr wc from http://www.pennbullets (12/14 BHN) with no or very little leading again useing published target loads. Cast bullets are accurate and will save you a ton of $$ but anyway you go, you WILL have some fouling from the lube and powder. I shoot a little more than you do, and CAST bullets are the only bullets I shoot.
 
Be aware lead bullets smoke & are kinda dirty.
My hands were pretty black after my range trip today.

This is one of those things you'll notice that's different in lead vs plated/jacketed.

Also, almost all recipes will call for less powder when using lead bullets.
So please don't make the mistake of using your old jacketed bullet recipes.

Remember your reloading manual & your brains are your best friends :D

Stay safe!
 
J2FLAN said:
No need to slug your barrel for most handgun loads, your barrel is most likely in spec so most standard sized cast bullets will work fine with published loads
I disagree. Many factory barrels are over sized. I highly recommend slugging the barrel first to determine the barrel diameter as the first step in minimizing/eliminating leading in the barrel. At the very least, take your caliper to the muzzle of the barrel and do groove-to-groove measurements to give you a rough idea.


codefour said:
I have been real leery of lead because I hate lead fouling in the bores.
I do not like leading as it affects accuracy and thanks to many good folks here at THR (you know who you are, thanks! ;)), I got all of my lead loads to where they don't lead at all or if they do, minimum smear at the chamber end that cleans out easily.

This is THR. I believe identifying all the variables of reloading steps and adjusting one variable at a time is the proper way of resolving certain reloading problems like leading. Identifying what diameter lead bullets to use or what OAL to use etc. should not be a guess work, but a deliberate and calculated determination.
 
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measuring barrels.

I don't measure barrels unless I have a problem. Most barrels are within specs and I own a great variety of guns. The only pistol I had an issue with was an early Beretta 92 that had an oversize barrel and I dumped that one.

I have had good results with several cast bullet suppliers like Dardas, Mastercast,Tennesee Valley, and now Penn Bullets.

All have offered excellent results in my guns.
So give it a try I'm sure you become a believer as well.
 
RC...A few of us dedicated boolit casters have figured out a way to add a gas check to a non-gas check bullet. It's tedious, but it works.

Fiddling around with the RCBS case trimmer and the collet case holders...we've discovered that certain sizes can be used to swage a gas check shoulder into the base of certain caliber bullets. A few of the more determined ones have made up their own shoulder swaging collets, along with a better, faster method of using them to modify the bullet bases, and when done right, actually makes for a more solid installation than on bullets dropped from gas check moulds. Gas checks can often be found still crimped onto the remnants of bullets after hitting steel targets.

Good ol' redneck ingenuity. ;)

Generally, I find gas checks to be an expensive and unnecessary step on pistol bullets and almost never use them any more.
 
Like said above, you will need to tell us what caliber, bullet weight and target velocity you are looking for before bullet hardness recommendation can be made. Most of the time something in the 12 BHN range is good enough for most applications with the proper lube.
 
Sorry for the slow reply. My home computer took a big dive and a new one is being shipped as I type this.

Mostly, I am going to be loading for .40 S&W and .45 ACP. In 45, I like to stay in the 230 grain RN bullet at 800 to 850 fps. In the .40, I would like to stay with 180 grain at 950 to 1050 fps.

Are these velocities obtainable without a leading problem.? I use either Unique or 231 as powder.
 
MBC 180 grn with Unique for the 40. Start at mid-range loads, go up or down to find least leading and best accuracy. I shot over 1K of them before I slugged the barrel, only to find everything was OK (XDm). HP-38 (231) left little lead balls in the chamber end. Lighter loads tend to smoke more with Unique. I suspect I could use a little softer bullet, as I don't load to full power. I'm getting a few split necks (mixed range PU) after 5 or 6 reloads.
 
Mostly, I am going to be loading for .40 S&W and .45 ACP. In 45, I like to stay in the 230 grain RN bullet at 800 to 850 fps. In the .40, I would like to stay with 180 grain at 950 to 1050 fps.

Are these velocities obtainable without a leading problem.? I use either Unique or 231 as powder.
Yes, easily. A good fit and 12 BHN bullets should do just fine. Might get away with 18 BHN. The .40 may even prefer 18 BHN, but I haven't shot any lead in .40. Hopefully some folks will post what lead bullets they are shooting in .40.
 
Yes, easily. A good fit and 12 BHN bullets should do just fine. Might get away with 18 BHN. The .40 may even prefer 18 BHN, but I haven't shot any lead in .40. Hopefully some folks will post what lead bullets they are shooting in .40.

Yes, It would be nice if someone posted what they are shooting in 180 grain .40..?
 
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