T and Norma marked small flash holes 9mm

Random 8

Random 8

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Just purchased (gasp) a bag of 9mm brass to supplement my rotating stock. The wife has been shooting more, and high metals prices have made for slim pickings at my local range, so I needed to subsidize my inventory a bit.

Among that brass, is a small quantity of T marked (Swiss military issue/surplus) and Norma commercial brass that I believe to be of the same origin with the Norma stamp for commercial sale. I'm in contact with several shooters in Switzerland, and some of their present issued range ammo in 9mm is Norma marked, but packaged as RUAG T ammo minus the military acceptance labeling and indicated for shooting club use. They get over-runs from military/commercial production to shoot for practice and competition. This all revolves around the Beretta purchase of RUAG Ammotec. A brand isn't necessarily a brand anymore.

Just throwing it out there before some purchase a large quantity of the Swiss ammo with the intention of using the brass(presently for sale at SG for a reasonable price) or damage primer pins on their dies with one of these cases. The decapping pin on both a LEE and RCBS die will not fit the flash hole. They are absolutely Boxer primed, but with a very small flash hole. Smaller than the IK brass!

Be mindful of T or Norma brass, and I would suspect any marked RWS or GECO. Both of these were available for some time with "normal" flash holes, but new production may be out of the ThunnWerk in Switzerland.
 
Random 8 said:
Just purchased (gasp) a bag of 9mm brass to supplement my rotating stock. The wife has been shooting more, and high metals prices have made for slim pickings at my local range, so I needed to subsidize my inventory a bit.

Among that brass, is a small quantity of T marked (Swiss military issue/surplus) and Norma commercial brass that I believe to be of the same origin with the Norma stamp for commercial sale. I'm in contact with several shooters in Switzerland, and some of their present issued range ammo in 9mm is Norma marked, but packaged as RUAG T ammo minus the military acceptance labeling and indicated for shooting club use. They get over-runs from military/commercial production to shoot for practice and competition. This all revolves around the Beretta purchase of RUAG Ammotec. A brand isn't necessarily a brand anymore.

Just throwing it out there before some purchase a large quantity of the Swiss ammo with the intention of using the brass(presently for sale at SG for a reasonable price) or damage primer pins on their dies with one of these cases. The decapping pin on both a LEE and RCBS die will not fit the flash hole. They are absolutely Boxer primed, but with a very small flash hole. Smaller than the IK brass!

Be mindful of T or Norma brass, and I would suspect any marked RWS or GECO. Both of these were available for some time with "normal" flash holes, but new production may be out of the ThunnWerk in Switzerland.
Click to expand...
Just make sure it's non-magnetic...there's some brass plated stuff floating around. And an FW Arms decapper = a correctly resized flash hole;-)
 
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Random 8 said:
Just throwing it out there ... decapping pin on both a LEE and RCBS die will not fit the flash hole. They are absolutely Boxer primed, but with a very small flash hole.
Click to expand...
"Undersized" decapping pin for small flash hole may be the solution:

Universal undersized flash hole decapping pin - https://leeprecision.com/undersized-flash-hole-universal-decapping-pin

Double ended universal undersized flash hole decapping pin - https://leeprecision.com/double-ended-undersized-flash-hole-universal-decapping-pin
 
LiveLife said:
"Undersized" decapping pin for small flash hole may be the solution:

Universal undersized flash hole decapping pin - https://leeprecision.com/undersized-flash-hole-universal-decapping-pin

Double ended universal undersized flash hole decapping pin - https://leeprecision.com/double-ended-undersized-flash-hole-universal-decapping-pin
Click to expand...
If I had more, I'd probably mess with it. They did decap on my Lee universal. Didn't feel like swapping die parts around for a few cases when the scrap bucket was right there LOL. More of a PSA post for folks grabbing range brass or purchasing ammo to reload the brass.
 
Random 8 said:
Just purchased (gasp) a bag of 9mm brass to supplement my rotating stock. The wife has been shooting more, and high metals prices have made for slim pickings at my local range, so I needed to subsidize my inventory a bit.

Among that brass, is a small quantity of T marked (Swiss military issue/surplus) and Norma commercial brass that I believe to be of the same origin with the Norma stamp for commercial sale. I'm in contact with several shooters in Switzerland, and some of their present issued range ammo in 9mm is Norma marked, but packaged as RUAG T ammo minus the military acceptance labeling and indicated for shooting club use. They get over-runs from military/commercial production to shoot for practice and competition. This all revolves around the Beretta purchase of RUAG Ammotec. A brand isn't necessarily a brand anymore.

Just throwing it out there before some purchase a large quantity of the Swiss ammo with the intention of using the brass(presently for sale at SG for a reasonable price) or damage primer pins on their dies with one of these cases. The decapping pin on both a LEE and RCBS die will not fit the flash hole. They are absolutely Boxer primed, but with a very small flash hole. Smaller than the IK brass!

Be mindful of T or Norma brass, and I would suspect any marked RWS or GECO. Both of these were available for some time with "normal" flash holes, but new production may be out of the ThunnWerk in Switzerland.
Click to expand...
Thanks. Interesting.

So the time frame for when small hole Norma started is very very recent I presume since the RUAG ownership is nearly 20 years and holes have been standard all that time.

Haven't seen any yet but have picked up a couple of small hole GECO at the range. Didn't realize they will all be coming from same source.
IMG_4516.jpeg
 
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Didn't take a picture, but I did some comparisons between the T marked Swiss mil brass and the small hole and large hole Norma. Internal appearance was same between the T and Norma small. Weight was near identical between the 2, the large hole Norma was considerably lighter. The 2 small holes fit the same distance up the tapered decapping rod on my Universal Lee decapper. This confirms to me that the Norma small and T are both of the same production at Thunn in Switzerland. In the case of the Norma, it wouldn't surprise me if this was a shift to take advantage of the huge demand for ammo here in the last few years. There's evidently been some creative outsourcing with recently imported ammo under the RUAG umbrella.

I have a large amount of RWS marked 9mm brass that was commercially sold some years ago. Packaging was marked RUAG and made in Switzerland, but it did not specify factory. This has a normal flash hole, as does some older GECO marked brass I have. The WMA I have in this lot from Everglades is 21 - 23 marked, so I believe this brass is likely all pretty recently fired. Perhaps this shift in Switzerland was due to some new priming system or new tooling setup?
 
I deprimed a few dozen Norma 9mm cases recently and my Lee depriming die did it with only minor resistance. But I do have the collet on the die tightened down pretty tight.
 
I bent a Lee decapping pin on an off center small hole.
A Squirrel Daddy pin is tapered and will swage it open... if it is centered.

I am now using a Lee Small pin on mixed brass with no failures thus far.
 
I use Squirrel Daddy hardened pins and enlarge as I deprime. Broke several Lee pins before I realized what the problem was.
 
gudaki said:
I use Squirrel Daddy hardened pins and enlarge as I deprime. Broke several Lee pins before I realized what the problem was.
Click to expand...
Thanks! I didn't know that was a thing. Amazon will have it here shortly. Unfortunate that the shipping is more than the product, but still a good value.
 
9mmepiphany said:
You're the first person I've heard of , in a long time, who pays for Amazon shipping
Click to expand...
Almost everything we (the wife mostly) orders is free shipping. The Squirreldaddy is an exception. I think the last thing I had pay shipping on was a sauna hat from Ukraine.
 
If you order directly from Squirrel Daddy, 3- Lee pins are $10.95 W/ Free shipping. I bought a 3 pack several months ago and have decapped Norma cases with the small flash hole with no issues.

www.squirreldaddy.com

3 Ball end decapping pin upgrade for Lee 90783 / 90292

3 pack Ball end decapping pin upgrade for Lee 90783 / 90292 helps to reduce broken pins when alignment is less than perfect.
www.squirreldaddy.com
 
9mmepiphany said:
Between myself, my son, and my daughter, it's well worth it for us...just the savings in gas to go get stuff is more than break even
Click to expand...
You have any of Bezos grocery stores out there? You'd be right at home. He has the traditional ones with Prime "discounts" at register and the newer no cash, no check out/electronic only for Prime members? Whole Foods & Fresh Market are names here.

I use former cause he bought Whole Foods after I had been customer for 20 years, but not latter cause we pretend we can actually live off the grid:)

Doesn't sell reloading supplies at any.
 
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