talk about mini 14 twist ratios...

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carlrodd

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somebody please straighten me out or point me to some good sites. i was googling last nite, but my info is a bit confused. mini 14s are barrelled for .223. a little reading will tell you to not shoot 5.56 through such a weapon because the loads are too hot. i just bought a book, Mini-14 : The Plinker, Hunter, Assault, And Everything Else Rifle by Duncan Long. It was copyrighted in 1985, but even for those older models, he claims you can shoot milsurp 5.56 from the rifle. the only thing he says to avoid are reloads. does all this have to do with the twist ratio and stabilizing certain loads? is what he says right? is there any difference in a newer model?
 
carlrodd said:
mini 14s are barrelled for .223. a little reading will tell you to not shoot 5.56 through such a weapon because the loads are too hot.

he claims you can shoot milsurp 5.56 from the rifle. the only thing he says to avoid are reloads.
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Let me give you a couple links...
Deconfusing the issue of a couple of differences

Winchester's take on it

You'll see whats what.


By the way, when SAAMI and Winchester both publish their opinion, agreeing that using 5.56 in a .223 chamber is dangerous, I'm going to believe them. Now whatever Duncan Long wants to do, is not my problem, but I definitely would'nt be standing too close to that guy. Oh, here's another one: http://www.fulton-armory.com/556-vs-223-Chambers.htm

I stick with 5.56 chambered AR barrels, because milsurp/Russian ammo is cheaper, but I can always use Walmart .223 in a pinch or if I need to. I would definitely not vice versa that. I guess there is no option with the mini-14. But, I do know of a good Mini website for you... http://www.perfectunion.com/vb/ Should be able to see what they're shooting.
 
A few things...

You can get aftermarket springs and recoil buffers if you want to tune the gun for hotter loads. But 5.56 works fine in my bone-stock stainless Ranch Rifle. I have no clue about the really old ones.

Twist is about something else. I'll leave it to the AR guys (I'm just now joining them due to a wonderful court case in CA) to tell you what ratios work best with what bullets.

The current Mini-14 has a 1:9 twist, probably the best for using milsurp bullets (55-62 grain).

I think you want a faster twist for heavier bullets, slower twist for lighter bullets.

Not that you'll get 1" groups at 100 yards anyway without some major modifications, no matter what bullets you use...:)
 
ArmedBear said:
You can get aftermarket springs and recoil buffers if you want to tune the gun for hotter loads.
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I fail to comprehend what that has to do with unsafe pressure levels in the chamber, or a chamber throat that is too short.
 
UPDATE...

Here, a little searching provides the missing link :neener:

http://www.perfectunion.com/vb/showthread.php?t=49279&highlight=nato

Related bits for cliff notes:

The mini 14 and most AR's have what is known as an A2 chamber. An A2 chamber will take either 223 or 5.56

mini Ranch rifle instruction manual plainly states ".223 or 5.56",

Savage; “Mil-surplus ammo is not recommended in our rifles”
Ruger; M77 and No. 1 are .223 SAAMI chambers, 5.56 mm ammo is “not recommended”, and Mini-14 is 5.56 ok
CZ USA: “M193 ball ammo should be completely safe to use in the CZ 527 .223.”
 
I have 1.5 thousand rounds of Russian surplus 5.56 through my early 90's Blued Ranch Rifle with not a single problem.

Joe
 
Introduction-86 1/10 twist
86-95 1/7 twist
95-present 1/9 twist

Ruger has a page on their site that will tell you the manufacture date for your gun based on the serial #, or you can use a patch and a tape measure.
 
Russian surplus 5.56
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say wot? i wasn't aware the russians made any military 5.56mm. i suspect you mean the inexpensive COMMERCIAL wolf, *bear or other types.

although the mini-14 is labeled .223, it is not a true .223 chamber, i understand.

i have a couple thousand rounds of m193 through mine with no issues and that's after seriously heating that sucker up.

but, of course 5.56mm is completely unsafe in the rifle so if you own a mini-14 and 5.56mm send it to me and i will safely dispose of it.
 
chopinbloc said:
say wot? i wasn't aware the russians made any military 5.56mm. i suspect you mean the inexpensive COMMERCIAL wolf, *bear or other types.

although the mini-14 is labeled .223, it is not a true .223 chamber, i understand.

i have a couple thousand rounds of m193 through mine with no issues and that's after seriously heating that sucker up.

but, of course 5.56mm is completely unsafe in the rifle so if you own a mini-14 and 5.56mm send it to me and i will safely dispose of it.
Click to expand...

thanks for lookin out buddy, what's your address?
 
I know several people with .223 bolt guns (Savage & Remington) who regularly shoot 5.56 milsurp without any problems whatsoever.
 
R.H.
How's the accuracy from those Savages with 5.56? If I have a < .5 MOA Savage, is there any chance, whatsoever, of me pulling sub-MOA w/ milsurp 5.56?
Thanks,
RT
 
gonzo_beyondo said:
I fail to comprehend what that has to do with unsafe pressure levels in the chamber, or a chamber throat that is too short.
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It has nothing to do with that.

Since my Mini-14 is spec'd for 5.56 or .223, I was trying to figure out what objections people would have to shooting 5.56.

I'm glad you came along to clarify, in case he has an old one that's actually unsafe.:)

Quality 5.56 like Federal milsurp is markedly different in a Mini-14, when compared to, say, PMC .223 plinking ammo.

The 5.56 is a flamethrower with massive muzzle flash and a long flame fully visible in desert sunshine on a cloudless day at noon. It is very loud; people at the range come over to see what the heck I'm shooting. Shells fly really far from the action -- typical for the Ranch Rifle, but 5.56 flies farther. The bolt seems to slam back noticeably harder.

The .223 has little muzzle flash, even at an indoor range with low lighting. It's a lot quieter. Recoil feels less like a slam of the action. Shells don't seem to fly QUITE as far.:)

So I guess I was wondering if those "issues" were what people were talking about. Of course, if I'm going to shoot my 4 MOA can-blaster, I'd rather have a loud flamethrower anyway. What's the point of being immature if I do it in moderation? :D

(Yes, I am VERY safety-conscious.)
 
Red Tornado- I don't know what the numbers are; these guys usually shoot at metal gongs 125, 175, 200, 300 & 400 yds; from the bench and offhand. They hit them regularly as evidenced by the 'thwap'. I'll be at the range this weekend and will ask about moa accuracy. :)
 
You can shoot 5.56 through a .223 gun. It will have slightly more pressure but nothing to worry about although, the military load is 62 grain so it might be a little hard to stabilize. If you break the barrel (that would be extremely hard to do) you can get a new one for 20 bucks.
 
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