Talk to me about fireforming

[Jordan]

I'm loading for optimum accuracy in .308.

I've just had a new barrel installed. I have a ton of match brass that I had been shooting out of my old barrel.

I've found that accuracy with my first loading is poor compared to subsequent loadings of the same brass. This is, no doubt, due to the fact that the brass has been fireformed to my new chamber.

My question: How can I fireform say a couple hundred rnds of this old brass to my new chamber without wasting a lot of bullets, a lot of powder, and (my biggest concern) greatly accelerating the wear on this new barrel.

I'd just go out and shoot it all once except that the accuracy really isn't great and that's the whole reason I'm shooting this particular rifle... feel I'm wasting my time and money.

Here's another Idea-- should I talk to the machinist/gunsmith who chambered this barrel about making me a sizing die with the same reamer he used to chamber the barrel?? That would be one way to get a good fit.

 

[Sven]

Welcome to THR!

What type of rifle do you have?

 

[Sunray]

Cast bullets. They'll do the job, but won't bother the barrel. Keep the velocoities down too to avoid leading. A light target load will do.

 

[Jordan]

Thanks Sven!

This is a Rem 700 with Lilja barrel. I had the gunsmith chamber it with a reamer quite a bit smaller that SAAMI. The bolt handle just about will not shut on factory box ammo.

Sunray: That's an interesting idea (the cast bullets). Are they cheaply available? Or would I need to get set up for bullet casting? If setup then that doesn't seem worth it... but maybe you know something I don't??

 

[E357]

The old really cheap way was to use a light charge of pistol powder under a bunch of corn meal filler and a wax bullet. I'm sure someone over on the rifle threads will give you a formula.

Elliot

 

[Paul "Fitz" Jones]

Fireforming

As an old timer fireforming to me is forming a case of one caliber to another caliber. As a teen I was given thousands of 30-06 rounds to practice with as a member of my State National Guard rifle team. My first reloading business was fireforming the 06 ammo to 7.7 Jap caliber for resale.

I happen to have very rare collectable box of 500 .30 caliber "Red Jet" brand fiber reinforced reuseable red wax bullets that were made for the 30 M1 carbine and Ruger pistols along with a box each of 38 and 45 caliber ones in boxes of a thousand in my collection that I am selling due to my age.

Paul
http://www.topica/lists/BulletCastersBulletinBoard

 

[Jordan]

E357: Thanks for the reply! This was exactly the kind of solution I was hoping for. What is the the purpose of the cream of wheat filler? Are the wax "bullets" you are talking about something that can be bought (like what Paul Jones is talking about)? Or just jamming the case mouth into a candle or crayon or something?

Paul: These wax bullets look plenty intriguing. You say they're reusable. How do you recover them? Shoot into a bucket of sand or something? You say they are "very rare and collectable"... so much so as to make a guy not want to use them up? Also, I'm not having any luck with that bullet casting link...???

Thanks for the help everyone!

 

[Paul "Fitz" Jones]

Red Jets Reply

The Red Jets have not been made since the 1970's but that does not mean they cannot be used and enjoyed. They are fired in pistols by primer power only into an indoor target on a cardboard box with a piece of rug hanging behind the target about a foot away attached to a stick across the top of the box sides. The jet goes through the target , box and hits the rug without damage and falls down to be used many times depending on the velocity used. They have been used on back yard pests and can be spotted in the grass because of their red color made for that purpose.

I have used them for fast draw practice in the garage as an officer and in my living room for strengthing my arm, sight picture and trigger squeeze practice.

Sorry, I am setting up the Bulletcasters bulletin board at the moment.
I only have one 30 caliber box and in your case a bit of pistol powder may be used for experimentation for propelling down a rifle barrel. The jets withstand the weapon rifling in pistols and should do so in a rifle as well at short back yard ranges. You can fire them from inside an open window and the neighbors would not know you are shooting.
The box of 500 is $15 to a good home plus shipping and I only have the one .30 caliber one as it is part of my no longer needed collection.

Regards John Paul

I should finish setting up my Bulletcasters Bulletin Board today

My bullets are what I say they are above and have nothing to do with fireforming as there is little pressure involved. I am talking cats and you are talking dogs

 

[Jordan]

Dang I'd probably be interested in those, Paul. Do you think they'd do the trick as far as creating enough pressure for fireforming to brass to the chamber? If so I'll email you and figure out the best way to get you some money--
Thanks

 

[LewG]

The problem with cast bullets, and especially the wax bullets with ony a primer propellent, is your pressure is so low, it could take you 2-3 firings to fully form the case with CB, and I doubt you will do it with the wax bullets and just a primer.

Your gunsmith can cut you a fireforming barrel with the same reamer for you to do a mass fireforming with cheap bullets and reinstall your new, expensive, target Lilja barrel. - Also good for future use

Sort a large lot of fired brass by Mfg./weight/concentricity(neck and body wall thickness).

If you barely size your once fired brass to barely allow you to close your bolt, I think you will find, as have so many others, that you can do your fireforming and load workup at the same time. Rarely is there much adjustment from this. - Lew

 

[E357]

Jordan, this thread will explain the process: Shooters

Do a searxh on "fire forming" in any of the Rifle centric reloading sites.

Elliot

 

[John Ross]

Get your gunsmith to chamber a cheap factory take-off barrel with the same reamer (he'll have to cut most of the chamber off and start over for a min-spec chambering reamer).

Then FL size your cases and load them with either regular loads using the cheapest bullets you can find, or, barring that, about 8-10 grains of some fast pistol powder like Unique and fill the rest with Cream of Wheat. Get some 1/8" sheet wax at a craft supply store and press it on the case mouths. This is for convenience so the CoW & powder don't spill. Fireform. The CoW is to get the pressure up and to push on the inside of the case to fill it out.

Start low with Unique and raise the charge until the cases are similar in size to real loads fired out of the gun (use a mic.)

Some will say unique and CoW won't hurt a match barrel. I never have taken the risk.

JR

 

[bogie]

John, if you don't mind, I'll clarify that...

Use either the el-cheapo bullet bit _OR_ the fast powder and cream of wheat method.

DO NOT USE FAST POWDER UNDER A BULLET.

Now for the fun stuff - What are you going to use the rifle/barrel for? How many shots are you going to need to fire at a session? A benchrester can wear a barrel out with 20 pieces of brass...