Texas Long Gun Sale with Third Party Pickup

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MattTheHat

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I had a guy respond to an ad I had for a rifle. He is in Austin and I'm in Dallas. He wanted to have a friend pay for and pick up the rifle since his friend is often in the Dallas area. I know that would be a no-no on a new gun purchase, but wasn't sure what to think on a person-to-person (well, a person-to-person's friend) sale.

Is this lawful? I know I can ship a long gun to another Texas resident, so maybe this isn't any different? And I'm not sure if the payment being handed over by the friend changes anything.

Does anyone know for sure? I know most of us here aren't lawyers, but I was hoping someone could point me to a Texas state law that might apply.


-Matt
 
The response will be overwhelming: Don't.

If your buyer had kept his face-hole shut and just sent his friend to buy from you, the question would be much clearer. As is, there is a serious lingering question (not clearly outlined in the law) as to whether you should transfer to one person knowing they intend to immediately transfer to another.
 
Legally, this is no problem. As there is no 4473 form involved, there can be no question of a "straw sale." (That is, technically speaking, lying on the 4473 form.)

Practically, I'm not sure what difference it really makes. If you met the buyer face-to-face, would you know or have reason to know he is not from your state, or is a prohibited person? Yes? No?

Does NOT seeing him face-to-face so change what you would know or have reason to know about him? As you pointed out, you could mail it to him and be completely within the law.
 
MattTheHat
Is this lawful?
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Yes




I know I can ship a long gun to another Texas resident, so maybe this isn't any different?
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While Federal law allows you to ship a firearm directly to another resident of your state (as long as you have no reason to believe he is a prohibited person) no carrier will touch it. Both FedEx and UPS prohibit shipment of firearms between nonlicensees.




And I'm not sure if the payment being handed over by the friend changes anything.
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Changes nothing at all. "Straw purchases" only affect licensed dealers.




Does anyone know for sure? I know most of us here aren't lawyers, but I was hoping someone could point me to a Texas state law that might apply.
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I'm positive. Texas law does not address intrastate shipping of firearms.



GoWolfpack The response will be overwhelming: Don't.
gunnerh Don't!!!!! Most likely it is just fine but why take the chance.
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The overwhelming question is why not?;)
There is nothing in Federal law or Texas law that prohibits such a transaction.
 
The real issue for the OP (seller) is whether he knows or has reasonable cause to believe that the buyer is a prohibited person. If so, selling the gun to him would be a violation of federal law (18 USC 922(d)).

I don't know enough about all that has gone on between the seller and buyer to hazard a guess as to the answer for the seller. He probably should think about things and decide if anything has happened to cause him to think that the buyer might be prohibited from possessing a gun.
 
Thanks guys. My reasoning was exactly the same as Sam and Tom. I wasn't aware of any prohibition as long as I had no reason to suspect the guy wasn't a resident or disallowed person.

Again, thanks, guys!


-Matt
 
dogtown tom said:
The overwhelming question is why not?;)
There is nothing in Federal law or Texas law that prohibits such a transaction.
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It is true, the only requirement for a private sale is that you have no reason to believe the person you transfer the gun to isn't a resident of your state and isn't prohibited. Whether or not they intend to transfer your gun again once they've purchased it is legally irrelevent. It is now their responsibility to ensure the next transfer is legal.


Personally I do not care at all what someone does with my gun once they've given me money.


This just smelled like the kind of thing the community wouldn't like. Perhaps I'm wrong and have judged THR too harshly.
 
Thanks, Frank. I have no reason to believe the buyer is prohibited or is a non-resident. I didn't ask, but without any cause to suspect, it's not my concern. The reason for the friend picking up the rifle is that his friend is often in Dallas through his normal course of business.


-Matt
 
While Federal law allows you to ship a firearm directly to another resident of your state (as long as you have no reason to believe he is a prohibited person) no carrier will touch it. Both FedEx and UPS prohibit shipment of firearms between nonlicensees.
Click to expand...

Since this is a long gun, however, the USPS will take it
 
Just did this, actually, as a buyer.

Bought a rifle sight unseen from a guy, trusted him enough thru a little third party "yeah I know him" data to send him a check. Planned to go a week later to pick it up but got busy. Couldn't get a chance to drive the 75 miles to his place before I left for a few months of flying. Asked him if a friend of mine in his city could grab it, he checked the legalities (which are as indicated above), and said no problem. Buddy grabbed it and now I'll pick it up from him when I return.

I guess that legally it's two different private transfers, but who's counting?


Willie

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You are not an FFL, there is no paperwork involved, or a background check. Nothing illegal here. The ice cream guy could pick it up and drop it off across town for all you care.
 
Legal? Yup sure is. Good idea? Not usually. I went through this just a few weeks ago selling a firearm. Contacted by person A but person B or C will contact me to make the actual sale. Ended up going back and forth so long that someone else bought it. Probably really is nothing more than 2 friends arranging to buy something, usually turns into a bigger hassle than it is worth though.
 
I avoid third parties, usually dont mind driving an hour to make a several hundred dollar sale...

Having said I don't mind the drive in the ad, third parties throw up red flags for me. And I have no problem telling someone that when I get a call or text saying "im gonna send a buddy after it."

Willie brings up an intersting situation... While I cant see myself being mailed a check, in that situation, I doubt I'd have a problem with a third party.
 
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