The Ghost Gun Issue as a Straw Horse

[old lady new shooter]

They are starting to. Heard some of the big box stores are doing it. BP revolvers are selling as fast as they make them. Even the cheapest brass framed ones go fast. Cartridge conversions for these also don't last long when they come for sale.

When I bought my first gun (a 4" 686 plus, in 2015) I was living not only in California, but L.A. County, i.e. an extremely gun-unfriendly jurisdiction. I went to a different gun store to buy cleaning supplies for it. While waiting I wandered over to the display case that held the black powder revolvers and was totally entranced with their look. The clerk wanted to sell me one and I said "I can't buy one, I just bought a gun, now I have to wait 30 days to buy another one." He said, no, black powder guns aren't subject to that (California) rule and don't require a background check. (For the record, I anyway didn't buy one because in real life I would probably never have shot it.)

I haven't seen anywhere that the actual background check law has been changed -- I believe it's something like both actual antiques and reproductions of antiques are exempt, probably someone here knows exactly. If the law hasn't changed and big box stores are background-checking them, that's their own decision.

 

[webrx]

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/can...w-possessing-firearm-own-black-powder-firearm

Because black powder firearms are considered antique firearms, the possession of a black powder firearm by a person subject to federal firearms disabilities is not prohibited by the GCA. However, a person subject to federal firearms disabilities may not receive and/or possess black powder firearms that can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any combination thereof which are classified as "firearms." Additionally, state law may prohibit the possession of a black powder firearm by persons who are not federally prohibited from possessing them. Please contact your state's Attorney General’s Office for information regarding black powder firearms.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/n...s-licensees-newsletter-february-2005/download


We frequently receive questions concerning the sale of modern in-line muzzle loading rifles. Several years ago ATF determined that an in-line muzzle loading rifle using #209 shotgun primers for ignition was not an antique firearm and was subject to all provisions of the Gun Control Act (GCA). However, the GCA was amended in 1998 and many in-line muzzle loading rifles are now antique firearms and are excluded from the provisions of the GCA

If I understand this correctly, per the ATF, no BGC for BP revolvers and rifles (muzzle loaders not cartridge guns)..

 

[AlexanderA]

The key determinant for post-1898 guns to be considered "antiques" is the ignition system and not the propellant (black powder). We use "black powder" as a shorthand for antiques, but that is not correct.

 

[Pudge]

...my reading of the causes of economically and culturally motivated crime suggest otherwise. Increasing executions is not a society I would be happy with. Increased incarceration has not done much and is a negative in the long run. Want to lower crime - the answer is well known - decent economic opportunity for young men and breaking the culture that lack of opportunity generates. This has been seen across the ages and cultures. Economic opportunity is not pandering.

When you propose that punishing behavior and enforcing laws doesn't result in evidence that shows a reduction in crime, it also makes it difficult for me to accept that a restriction in the Civil rights of law-abiding citizens will have any impact on violent crime. So when you say

"It just comes down to this:

Do we have checks on purchasing guns or kits that easily make guns or not?"

You have essentially made the argument that there is no benefit to such regulations, and we'd be better off ditching the legislation, and the systems and agencies which support and enforce that legislation, and invest those resources in promoting economic opportunities for the underprivileged.

I think you've convinced me.

 

[GEM]

If we did promote economic opportunities, we would greatly diminish the crimes in those areas. Exactly. The issue is whether at the present time, abandoning all things like the NICS system would increase criminal usage. If we change the population dynamics, we get rid of most of the economically and culturally drive crime. Punishing behavior isn't useful if it is just punishment without an avenue for behaviorally change. Some might want to execute for all manner of offenses. Faking your assets to get a loan, execute folks for that!

Across the world, when economic opportunity disappeared, we see an increase of families with no fathers. In the USA, when we sent our good jobs to China or lost them through automation, we saw an across the board increase in such plus drug usage and its economy.

The issue of whether our current incarceration programs are the most effective way to lower the overall violence in communities is a complex one. Taking out the small number of most violent offenders must be done but stopping the endless generation of such should be done also.

Should we get rid of all checks? I'd keep them in place for now and move to change society through economic opportunity across all segments of the population. Bring down the crime rates in the areas of high violence, then I might ditch the regs.

I certainly would get rid of the ban state restrictions now. They are useless in doing anything related to crime.

 

[old lady new shooter]

I'm no expert by any means, but all the black powder revolver reproductions I've seen are of originals from prior to 1898.

 

[old lady new shooter]

If we did promote economic opportunities, we would greatly diminish the crimes in those areas. Exactly. The issue is whether at the present time, abandoning all things like the NICS system would increase criminal usage. If we change the population dynamics, we get rid of most of the economically and culturally drive crime. Punishing behavior isn't useful if it is just punishment without an avenue for behaviorally change. Some might want to execute for all manner of offenses. Faking your assets to get a loan, execute folks for that!

Across the world, when economic opportunity disappeared, we see an increase of families with no fathers. In the USA, when we sent our good jobs to China or lost them through automation, we saw an across the board increase in such plus drug usage and its economy.

The issue of whether our current incarceration programs are the most effective way to lower the overall violence in communities is a complex one. Taking out the small number of most violent offenders must be done but stopping the endless generation of such should be done also.

Should we get rid of all checks? I'd keep them in place for now and move to change society through economic opportunity across all segments of the population. Bring down the crime rates in the areas of high violence, then I might ditch the regs.

I certainly would get rid of the ban state restrictions now. They are useless in doing anything related to crime.

"Economic opportunity" means a job. A job means showing up on time and giving one's best efforts to the assigned work from the starting time until the going home time, except for scheduled breaks.

 

[Pudge]

If we did promote economic opportunities, we would greatly diminish the crimes in those areas. Exactly. The issue is whether at the present time, abandoning all things like the NICS system would increase criminal usage. If we change the population dynamics, we get rid of most of the economically and culturally drive crime. Punishing behavior isn't useful if it is just punishment without an avenue for behaviorally change. Some might want to execute for all manner of offenses. Faking your assets to get a loan, execute folks for that!

Across the world, when economic opportunity disappeared, we see an increase of families with no fathers. In the USA, when we sent our good jobs to China or lost them through automation, we saw an across the board increase in such plus drug usage and its economy.

The issue of whether our current incarceration programs are the most effective way to lower the overall violence in communities is a complex one. Taking out the small number of most violent offenders must be done but stopping the endless generation of such should be done also.

Should we get rid of all checks? I'd keep them in place for now and move to change society through economic opportunity across all segments of the population. Bring down the crime rates in the areas of high violence, then I might ditch the regs.

I certainly would get rid of the ban state restrictions now. They are useless in doing anything related to crime.

But the checks you want to keep are merely laws and enforcement and punishment that you argue will not reduce crime. They are as pointless as you say incarcerating violent criminals is. It is just as valid to suggest increasing penalties for the violent criminals until we see results from the economic investments.

 

[AlexanderA]

I'm no expert by any means, but all the black powder revolver reproductions I've seen are of originals from prior to 1898.

Doesn't matter. A reproduction of a pre-1899 cartridge gun (such as a Colt SAA) is considered modern, and background checks apply.

 

[vintovka]

Let me add a good one. I was called into an CA LGS do a an identification and appraisal on a large estate collection. In lieu of payment i was offered my choice of one item equivalent to my fee. I chose an unaltered French 1866 Chaspot Needle rifle. I packed it up and was about the leave when the LGS owner said hold on you have to do a 4473 and the CADOJ paperwork plus waiting period!!!!!!. When i asked why he said CADOJ came in and said anything capable of firing FIXED AMMUNTION with a primer now requires this crap regardless of age. I said OK give me $1500 cash!! He said take the rifle.

Now for those unfamiliar with the needle rifle it fires a paper wrapped "cartridge" with the primer on the base of the bullet. The needle passes thru the charge and hits the primer.
Maybe even a 250+ year old Flintlock musket is included as they can be loaded with a paper wrapped charge and primed with some of its powder!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[ColoradoMinuteMan]

I respect you giving such a straight forward answer. It's hard for a lot of people to accept that child molesters, rapists, and other violent offenders who may have committed horrendous acts, deserve to have all their rights restored when they have served their sentence.

If a criminal is too dangerous to own a firearm, they are too dangerous to have freedom to roam the streets. It’s ridiculous to buy into the premise that those willing to violently harm another human being will be somehow inhibited by the illegality of the method in which they commit the act of violence.

 

[WrongHanded]

If a criminal is too dangerous to own a firearm, they are too dangerous to have freedom to roam the streets. It’s ridiculous to buy into the premise that those willing to violently harm another human being will be somehow inhibited by the illegality of the method in which they commit the act of violence.

True. But it's still how our society does things. There's no point trying to tell me it's the wrong way to do it. I already know.

 

[AlexanderA]

If a criminal is too dangerous to own a firearm, they are too dangerous to have freedom to roam the streets. It’s ridiculous to buy into the premise that those willing to violently harm another human being will be somehow inhibited by the illegality of the method in which they commit the act of violence.

It seems obvious to me that it's never going to be possible to 100% prevent bad actors from getting guns. But that's not what this debate is about. What we're really talking about is making it more difficult for them to get guns. It used to be possible for someone -- anyone -- to waltz into a hardware store and buy a Thompson submachine gun over the counter, no questions asked. Do we really want to go back to that?

OK, so gangsters in the 1930's could steal Thompsons from police departments. But that was considerably riskier for them than simply buying one at a hardware store.

It's not easy for a prosecutor to get a felony conviction, and it's even harder to put such a felon away for life. People are released for various practical reasons. But the very fact of a felony conviction is evidence of moral turpitude, and is a rational basis for denying the person a gun. There is always the safety valve, in extraordinary cases, of expunging a felony record and having rights restored.

 

[ColoradoMinuteMan]

It seems obvious to me that it's never going to be possible to 100% prevent bad actors from getting guns. But that's not what this debate is about. What we're really talking about is making it more difficult for them to get guns. It used to be possible for someone -- anyone -- to waltz into a hardware store and buy a Thompson submachine gun over the counter, no questions asked. Do we really want to go back to that?

OK, so gangsters in the 1930's could steal Thompsons from police departments. But that was considerably riskier for them than simply buying one at a hardware store.

It's not easy for a prosecutor to get a felony conviction, and it's even harder to put such a felon away for life. People are released for various practical reasons. But the very fact of a felony conviction is evidence of moral turpitude, and is a rational basis for denying the person a gun. There is always the safety valve, in extraordinary cases, of expunging a felony record and having rights restored.

In the end it's outcomes we should care about. So what if we find out that lots of criminals are found to possess 80% arms? If the majority of criminals were found to use Ruger PC9s would we ban them? Can you provide me with the statistics of how many more acts of violence occur as the result of "80%" arms? How many of those criminals would not have been carrying firearms if no 80% arms existed? What is the statistical uptick in violent crime, committed with firearms, that can be attributed to the existence of 80% arms? I've looked at the homicide statics, and my interpretation is that homicides with handguns, for instance, is following roughly the same statistical curve as homicides committed with knives. So, if this is the case, how is that availability of 80% all the sudden contributing to a more dangerous society? Is it, or have we really just exchanged one tool of violence for another?

 

[DoubleMag]

How many of those criminals would not have been carrying firearms if no 80% arms existed?

ALL of them would. They'd just 1) buy stolen 2) family buy a.k.a. ''straw purchase'' or 3) STEAL THEM themselves. I've talked to thousands of the buggers across the last 30++ years, they can figure out a LOT of things. EXCEPTION; getting a JOB

 

[webrx]

No idea how reliable this source is:

https://www.americanprogress.org/is...497817/frequently-asked-questions-ghost-guns/

Law enforcement officials around the country are sounding the alarm about the dramatic increase in the recovery of ghost guns at crime scenes in their communities. ATF reported that approximately 10,000 ghost guns were recovered across the country in 2019.14 Ghost guns have also been illegally trafficked to Mexico.15 In addition:

• In 2019, Washington, D.C., police recovered 115 ghost guns, a 360 percent increase from 2018, when they recovered 25 ghost guns, and a 3,733 percent increase from 2017, when only three such firearms were recovered.16
• In 2019, ATF reported recovering 117 ghost guns in Maryland with almost 25 percent recovered from Baltimore alone. Ghost gun recoveries in the state then tripled in 2020.17
• According to law enforcement in Philadelphia, ghost gun recoveries in that city rose 152 percent from 2019 to 2020.18
• The special agent in charge of the ATF Los Angeles Field Division reported in January 2021 that 41 percent of the division’s cases involve ghost guns, and a May 2019 statewide analysis in California found that 30 percent of all guns recovered in connection with a crime in the state did not have serial numbers.19

NOTE: In addition, an investigation by The Trace found that ghost guns are increasingly becoming the weapon of choice for violent white supremacists and anti-government extremists.20

Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privately_Made_Firearm
privately made firearm (so-called "Ghost Gun") is a term for a (typically) homemade firearm that lacks commercial serial numbers. The term is used mostly in the United States by gun control advocates, gun rights advocates, law enforcement, and some in the firearm industry.[1][2][3][4] Because home-manufacture of firearms for personal use is not considered to fall under the federal government’s authority to regulate interstate (as opposed to intrastate) commerce, individuals making their own firearms are not subject to federal or state commercial background check regulations. Persons otherwise prohibited from owning firearms are still legally barred from the manufacture, transfer, or possession of firearms or ammunition, regardless of the method of manufacture or acquisition.

https://www.fcnl.org/updates/2020-07/rise-ghost-guns-and-what-it-means-gun-violence-prevention
Piecing this all together, it’s no surprise that ghost guns are becoming increasingly popular among those committing crimes. In May 2019, the Department of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) reported that 30 percent of seized firearms in the department’s possession were ghost guns. In Los Angeles county alone, the number of ghost guns showing up in county investigations increased by 50 percent over the previous year. Washington, D.C. saw a 342 percent increase in recovered ghost guns – a jump from 26 ghost guns in 2018 to 115 in 2019. Many ATF and local police officers fear that this emerging trend will only worsen.

https://www.cbs58.com/news/feds-rai...cts-they-say-are-linked-to-hundreds-of-crimes
ATF officials, based on data from the agency's National Tracing Center, estimate that approximately 10,000 ghost guns were recovered in the US last year (2019), including about 2,700 in California. Polymer80 guns were used in "hundreds of crimes throughout the United States," and about 15 of the company's weapons were recovered during homicide investigations in California, the document states.

https://everytownresearch.org/report/the-rising-specter-of-ghost-guns/
More than 2,500 ghost guns were connected to criminal activity in 114 federal cases from 2010 to April 2020.


Herein lies the actual issue (an example):
https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/f...son-arsenal-ghost-guns-and-smuggled-silencers
A 41-year-old Seattle man was sentenced today in U.S. District Court in Seattle to 70 months in prison for being a felon in possession of a firearm and smuggling, announced Acting U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) Homeland Security Investigation (HSI) Special Agent in Charge Eben Roberts and U.S. Attorney Brian T. Moran. Nathan Brasfield was arrested in February 2020 when agents seized 17 pistols and 24 rifles from his home – most of the firearms had been manufactured at his residence as ‘ghost guns’

“Brasfield has a lengthy criminal history and has shown time and time again that he has no regard for the law,” said Acting Special Agent in Charge of ICE Homeland Security Investigations Seattle Eben Roberts. “A repeat felon, caught in possession of an illegally modified automatic firearm, is nothing short of a recipe for disaster. Brasfield, and criminals like him, should take today’s sentence as a stern warning. HSI and our law enforcement partners, working together, will seek, investigate, and ultimately bring to justice all those who seek to disregard our nation’s laws.”

“Undeterred by previous convictions and supervision from federal probation, this defendant built an arsenal of illegal weapons in his home and imported silencers from China,”

Previously, Brasfield was prosecuted in state court for crimes ranging from burglary to possession of stolen property. In 2002, he was arrested and prosecuted in state court for sending harassing messages as part of an effort to intimidate a person who was associated with animal research.

Summary:
Felon, previous convictions, previous felon in possession of a firearm, 48 months in prison already, on probation, not allowed to own firearms, builds ghost guns and illegal automatic weapons, and illegal silencers, this time he is getting 5 years and 10 months (70 months), because 4 years (48 months) worked so well the first time.

What is 70 months in prison going to do that the first 48 did not do? Nothing
How would a ghost gun law have changed this person? it wouldn't
Would it have prevented him from ordering silencers from china? NO
would it have prevented him from illegally modifying a semi auto into a full auto? No,
would it even have prevented him from having a firearm (most not all were ghost guns)? No,
What are they going to do different this time while he is in prison to rehabilitate? Nothing,

Definition of insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. This is what we need to change, not the gun laws.

d

 

[ColoradoMinuteMan]

Yes, I completely agree. Homicides with firearms is following roughly the same statistical curve as homicides with knives, fists etc. If they weren't using 80% firearms they would be using something else. It doesn't alarm me one bit that more core and more criminals are found with 80% arms any more than if they were found with Glocks, knives, etc.

.

What is 70 months in prison going to do that the first 48 did not do? Nothing
How would a ghost gun law have changed this person? it wouldn't
Would it have prevented him from ordering silencers from china? NO
would it have prevented him from illegally modifying a semi auto into a full auto? No,
would it even have prevented him from having a firearm (most not all were ghost guns)? No,
What are they going to do different this time while he is in prison to rehabilitate? Nothing,

Definition of insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. This is what we need to change, not the gun laws.

d

 

[tarosean]

It seems obvious to me that it's never going to be possible to 100% prevent bad actors from getting guns.

Of course not.....

However, this issue is the same as the AR Pistol/SBR issue playing out concurrently. The firearms community shot themselves in the foot.
No one gave a crap about Joe Blow making a gun in his garage prior to the advent of these DYI "kits". We poked the hornets nest and now they are coming for us.

 

[DoubleMag]

I refuse to blame ANY good American citizen, using ANY firearm for ANY reason (lawful) they SO SEE FIT, refuse to blame them for the crimes of...criminals.



PERIOD.

 

[ColoradoMinuteMan]

Those pesky people trying to exercise their rights.

Think about this analogy:
"The [free speech] community shot themselves in the foot.
No one gave a crap about Joe Blow [talking about politics] in his garage prior to the advent of [the printing press]. We poked the hornets nest and now they are coming for us.

Of course not.....

However, this issue is the same as the AR Pistol/SBR issue playing out concurrently. The firearms community shot themselves in the foot.
No one gave a crap about Joe Blow making a gun in his garage prior to the advent of these DYI "kits". We poked the hornets nest and now they are coming for us.

 

[tarosean]

Those pesky people trying to exercise their rights.

Think about this analogy:
"The [free speech] community shot themselves in the foot.
No one gave a crap about Joe Blow [talking about politics] in his garage prior to the advent of [the printing press]. We poked the hornets nest and now they are coming for us.

No analogies needed. Free speech is not without consequence.

I'll likely be a felon with the next BATFE ruling so what do I know?

 

[Insignificant bill]

No analogies needed. Free speech is not without consequence.

I'll likely be a felon with the next BATFE ruling so what do I know?

No because we aren't going to allow them to get away with it.

 

[Pudge]

No idea how reliable this source is:

https://www.americanprogress.org/is...497817/frequently-asked-questions-ghost-guns/

Law enforcement officials around the country are sounding the alarm about the dramatic increase in the recovery of ghost guns at crime scenes in their communities. ATF reported that approximately 10,000 ghost guns were recovered across the country in 2019.14 Ghost guns have also been illegally trafficked to Mexico.15 In addition:

• In 2019, Washington, D.C., police recovered 115 ghost guns, a 360 percent increase from 2018, when they recovered 25 ghost guns, and a 3,733 percent increase from 2017, when only three such firearms were recovered.16
• In 2019, ATF reported recovering 117 ghost guns in Maryland with almost 25 percent recovered from Baltimore alone. Ghost gun recoveries in the state then tripled in 2020.17
• According to law enforcement in Philadelphia, ghost gun recoveries in that city rose 152 percent from 2019 to 2020.18
• The special agent in charge of the ATF Los Angeles Field Division reported in January 2021 that 41 percent of the division’s cases involve ghost guns, and a May 2019 statewide analysis in California found that 30 percent of all guns recovered in connection with a crime in the state did not have serial numbers.19

NOTE: In addition, an investigation by The Trace found that ghost guns are increasingly becoming the weapon of choice for violent white supremacists and anti-government extremists.20

Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privately_Made_Firearm
privately made firearm (so-called "Ghost Gun") is a term for a (typically) homemade firearm that lacks commercial serial numbers. The term is used mostly in the United States by gun control advocates, gun rights advocates, law enforcement, and some in the firearm industry.[1][2][3][4] Because home-manufacture of firearms for personal use is not considered to fall under the federal government’s authority to regulate interstate (as opposed to intrastate) commerce, individuals making their own firearms are not subject to federal or state commercial background check regulations. Persons otherwise prohibited from owning firearms are still legally barred from the manufacture, transfer, or possession of firearms or ammunition, regardless of the method of manufacture or acquisition.

https://www.fcnl.org/updates/2020-07/rise-ghost-guns-and-what-it-means-gun-violence-prevention
Piecing this all together, it’s no surprise that ghost guns are becoming increasingly popular among those committing crimes. In May 2019, the Department of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) reported that 30 percent of seized firearms in the department’s possession were ghost guns. In Los Angeles county alone, the number of ghost guns showing up in county investigations increased by 50 percent over the previous year. Washington, D.C. saw a 342 percent increase in recovered ghost guns – a jump from 26 ghost guns in 2018 to 115 in 2019. Many ATF and local police officers fear that this emerging trend will only worsen.

https://www.cbs58.com/news/feds-rai...cts-they-say-are-linked-to-hundreds-of-crimes
ATF officials, based on data from the agency's National Tracing Center, estimate that approximately 10,000 ghost guns were recovered in the US last year (2019), including about 2,700 in California. Polymer80 guns were used in "hundreds of crimes throughout the United States," and about 15 of the company's weapons were recovered during homicide investigations in California, the document states.

https://everytownresearch.org/report/the-rising-specter-of-ghost-guns/
More than 2,500 ghost guns were connected to criminal activity in 114 federal cases from 2010 to April 2020.


Herein lies the actual issue (an example):
https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/f...son-arsenal-ghost-guns-and-smuggled-silencers
A 41-year-old Seattle man was sentenced today in U.S. District Court in Seattle to 70 months in prison for being a felon in possession of a firearm and smuggling, announced Acting U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) Homeland Security Investigation (HSI) Special Agent in Charge Eben Roberts and U.S. Attorney Brian T. Moran. Nathan Brasfield was arrested in February 2020 when agents seized 17 pistols and 24 rifles from his home – most of the firearms had been manufactured at his residence as ‘ghost guns’

“Brasfield has a lengthy criminal history and has shown time and time again that he has no regard for the law,” said Acting Special Agent in Charge of ICE Homeland Security Investigations Seattle Eben Roberts. “A repeat felon, caught in possession of an illegally modified automatic firearm, is nothing short of a recipe for disaster. Brasfield, and criminals like him, should take today’s sentence as a stern warning. HSI and our law enforcement partners, working together, will seek, investigate, and ultimately bring to justice all those who seek to disregard our nation’s laws.”

“Undeterred by previous convictions and supervision from federal probation, this defendant built an arsenal of illegal weapons in his home and imported silencers from China,”

Previously, Brasfield was prosecuted in state court for crimes ranging from burglary to possession of stolen property. In 2002, he was arrested and prosecuted in state court for sending harassing messages as part of an effort to intimidate a person who was associated with animal research.

Summary:
Felon, previous convictions, previous felon in possession of a firearm, 48 months in prison already, on probation, not allowed to own firearms, builds ghost guns and illegal automatic weapons, and illegal silencers, this time he is getting 5 years and 10 months (70 months), because 4 years (48 months) worked so well the first time.

What is 70 months in prison going to do that the first 48 did not do? Nothing
How would a ghost gun law have changed this person? it wouldn't
Would it have prevented him from ordering silencers from china? NO
would it have prevented him from illegally modifying a semi auto into a full auto? No,
would it even have prevented him from having a firearm (most not all were ghost guns)? No,
What are they going to do different this time while he is in prison to rehabilitate? Nothing,

Definition of insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. This is what we need to change, not the gun laws.

d

Gun control isn't about crime. It's about money.

Since Roe V. Wade the nation's views about abortion haven't changed significantly, but legislation isn't written or proposed to reflect those values. Legislation is crafted to exacerbate the conflict and get those who feel strongly to dig deep and write checks.

Gun control is following the same path. If the legislation were really effective in reducing crime, guns would be less of an issue, the gun control crowd wouldn't be fired up, which would keep the gun enthusiasts from being scared, and the funding on both sides would suffer. There's a lot more money in muddling the issue with misleading statistics and ineffective legislation meant to get both sides fired up.

The problem is that even though the issue is bogus, the threat to our freedom is very real, as are the effects of violence on society.