The technicians at Colt are really good at what they do!

[mikemyers]

This is the first thread I ever posted in TheHighroad forums, way back in 2011:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=609554&highlight=mikemyers
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It was about my 1980's Colt Combat Commander, that nobody was able to shoot well. A relative bought it, didn't like the lack of accuracy, and sold it to me. I thought it had terrible accuracy, but then so did I, so my first and biggest concern was trying to improve my own ability. Many many years later, after shooting a Wilson 1911, and doing quite a bit better, I was feeling very frustrated with the gun, especially when nobody else was able to shoot it well. They all said it's "good enough".

As it turns out, the most useful suggestion after all my questions was from 9mmepiphany:

"As 1858 said, you are free to spend your money however you like. However it sure seems like you are applying bandages to a symptom when you don't yet know the cause of the problem. Judging by your lack of familiarity with the 1911 action, I think a safer route would be to seek professional help

I'd be very concerned about some of the damage I'm seeing in your pictures, to the extent that I know it is beyond my experience. If it were my gun, I'd take it to a knowledgeable 1911 pistolsmith...as opposed to just any gunsmith...to determine what part of the timing of the action is causing the problem"
​

Three years later, with the gun slightly better, but not really "right" I sent it off to Colt. One year, and $830 later, I just got the gun back this morning.

• Repair for Function
• Install Bo-Mar style rear sight and dove tail front to match
• complete action tune for reliable function, trigger 4.5 pounds
• install fitted national match barrel and bushing
• adjust to factory specs
• test for function.

I don't know how well I'm going to do shooting it yet - haven't done anything more than looking, and taking a photo, but here's what Colt showed it could do. In retrospect, I should have sent it off to Colt ages and ages ago!!!!




By the way, anybody here know what "shot from an arm rest" means, and what is a "6 o'clock hold" ?

 

[Bigdog57]

Were there no local good gunsmiths in your AO? Seems you basically bought a new pistol.......

 

[CCS3]

Shot from an arm rest means it was bench rested when test fired. 6 o'clock hold means the front sight was underneath the very bottom of the bullseye. Think "apple on a stick"

Matt LaBonte is a very capable shooter. Glad your pistola got sorted out.

 

[WC145]

The Colt Custom Shop does excellent work, looks like they've got it set up right. I'm looking forward to your range report.

 

[mikemyers]

Shot from an arm rest means it was bench rested when test fired. 6 o'clock hold means the front sight was underneath the very bottom of the bullseye. Think "apple on a stick"

Matt LaBonte is a very capable shooter. Glad your pistola got sorted out.

Thanks; I assumed they would have used a "Ransom Rest", but never heard the term "arm rest" before. That, and "6 o'clock hold" now make sense - until now, people have been calling it "lollipop"; I like 6 0'clock more.

It would have only cost a bit over $100 for the basic repair, about the same as the shipping back to Colt. I had a long talk with "Michelle" (used to be in customer service dept.), told her how well (or not) I shoot, and asked her to talk to the service technicians about what I should have them do. I also asked her about the Bo-Mar style sight, and they thought it would be an improvement, as the gun is ONLY going to be used at the range.

A year ago, this was going to be my only 1911. I considered buying a new gun, or repairing mine, and people I knew said to just leave this gun alone, and buy new. After fighting the gun since 1980 or so, I didn't want to give up - I was pretty sure the gun could be made to shoot well, and Matt proved I was right about that.


Colt's advice was a 4 pound trigger pull. I'm guessing people will suggest lighter, but I went with Colt's advice.

I noticed they tested it with 230gr ammo; I plan to use 185gr for targets.

 

[MIL-DOT]

Good Lord, one YEAR ??? I would've ditched that thing and just bought an upper-end springfield and been done with it.

 

[mikemyers]

WC145, your response snuck in while I was typing mine. Sure, will post something with photos once I get a chance to shoot with it.

I need to send a letter to the Custom Shop, thanking them, and telling them how much I appreciate their work. I'll wait until after I shoot it, so (for better or worse) I can show them what I did with it. .....just did some dry-firing. I don't know the right words to describe the trigger pull.... it's just like the books describe though, where you just keep applying more pressure, and while the trigger doesn't noticeably move at all, suddenly it goes <click>. Much better than before!!!!

 

[MICHAEL T]

Enjoy your new pistol. Not many of us can say we have a Colt from the Colt custom shop.
Since going to be a range gun I would continue using the 230 gr they used .

 

[mikemyers]

.....Since going to be a range gun I would continue using the 230 gr they used .

Thanks!!

Curious - maybe I'm missing something. Is there some reason why 230gr is better for shooting at targets, than 185gr? Is it only because that's what Colt used to set up the gun, or do people prefer it for target shooting for other reasons?

 

[sequins]

Same grain of ammo tends to land the same place from the same barrel. If you go to 185 you might land differently on the target. Most guns aim to be optimal with the "ideal" ammo. For better or worse 230gr is considered to be this ammo.

 

[tipoc]

230 gr. ammo at about 830-850 fps from a 5" barrel has been the standard bullet weight and loading for the 45 acp round in a 1911 since the gun was introduced. This in ball ammo was the military load.

Most fixed sight guns with 5" barrels are set to this bullet weight with a 6 o'clock hold at 25 yards.

Most competitive bullseye shooting with 1911s has traditionally been done with lighter weight bullets. The 185 gr. and 200 gr. loads at reduced velocities...750 fps or so to reduce recoil. Usually in lead semi wadcutter bullets.

Hardball matches are usually done with the military weight, 230 gr. ball and full power loads, 830-850 fps. or so.

The 185 gr. loads at 900 or so fps are often used in defensive shooting for both the reduced recoil and in the belief that they help with expanding jhp bullets.

Your gun, an all steel Combat Commander, should do well in any bullet weight you choose from 185 gr. to 230.

tipoc

 

[mikemyers]

'tipoc', thanks. Maybe you know one more piece of my puzzle.

If I first shoot 230gr, loaded such that with a 5" gun they travel at 830-850fps,
and then shoot
bullseye 185gr loaded such that with the same gun they travel at 750 fps.


Each of those will produce "recoil", presumably more of it with 230, and less with 185.

Is there a chart, or webpage, or formula from which I can calculate the relative recoil of one vs. the other?


Until you wrote what you just did, I assumed that most people shoot the 230gr ammo, but if all I care about is bullseye, 185gr would be better because of the reduced recoil. Since the 1980's, I've always shot 185. I guess the best answer is to maybe try both of them again, and see how they compare in my own hands.

I also need to get out my old physics book. Force (recoil) = mass (185 or 230) x acceleration
Time to try to calculate this on my own.....


added later...
bullet weight of 185 is 78% of a weight of 230.
speed of 750 is 90% of a speed of 840.

So, if my midnight calculations are working properly, it should be only 70% of the recoil of shooting the heavier bullets at a faster speed.

 

[bannockburn]

mikemyers

Like the look of your "new" Combat Commander. I bought this one many years ago. It was a limited run done by Colt's Custom Shop and can match a Gold Cup in terms of it's accuracy and performance.

 

[JDR]

As stated earlier, the level of craftsmanship out of the Colt Custom Shop is top notch, so you know the work was done right. The price you paid is certainly not out of line considering the work you had done. I would have guessed 9 months to get all that work done, so three additional months is not totally out of line.

Good 1911 pistolsmiths are becoming a rare breed, many of the really good ones have passed on, retired, or have gotten out of the business entirely. One example is Evolution Gun Works, when their spare parts business took off they quit building custom guns and quit doing custom work. I used to get my guns worked on by George Smith and his crew at EGW, and I wish I still could get my guns worked on there.

Your gun is now worth at least what you just paid to have it worked on, probably more. Enjoy shooting your gun!

 

[RainDodger]

A guy's gun money is a guy's gun money... we all spend it in different ways, but at least we're spending it on guns! Expensive or not, now you've got a gun that you want, one you can be proud of and one you'll shoot. Much better than dumping it and finding another, which could also have problems. I've probably put too much into many of my guns too, but I've ended up with some very good shooters.

In all the years I've been shooting, I only gave up on ONE gun... it was a 1970 Colt L.W. Commander in .38 Super. Notwithstanding the chamber that headspaced on the case mouth, I could simply not get the gun to function reliably with any load. It spent probably a year total with a known 1911 pistolsmith, and neither of us could get it working right. I eventually sold it with full disclosure.

Enjoy your Colt Custom. Some other owner might have just dumped it without trying to save it. You've brought one back into good operating order!

 

[Jim Watson]

Looks like a good save.
Suggestion: Don't buy or load a lot of 185 grain bullets to start with. Try some before you stock up. Feeding and sight adjustment may or may not handle the difference.

 

[mikemyers]

The gun got to be more and more of a "challenge", especially over the past five years. In my mind, I was pretty certain that with the right repairs, it was capable of shooting well. Quite a few people were telling me otherwise. 9mmepiphany told me what in retrospect now seems obvious, and I followed his advice - send it back to "the mothership".

Regarding ammo, I have 1000 rounds of 230gr FMJ White-box Winchester arriving on Thursday, so I'm going to wait until then to start shooting. I'll check out the 185 ammo later....

Now I've got this gun, and my used/new Les Baer to break in, and get used to. Thanks again for all the advice.

 

[tipoc]

From Mike Myers:

Is there a chart, or webpage, or formula from which I can calculate the relative recoil of one vs. the other?

Yes there are many. If you google "recoil calculator" a good many turn up. Most will ask for the weight of the powder charge and some the type. These are to provide with the best results.

http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmrecoil-5.1.cgi

Until you wrote what you just did, I assumed that most people shoot the 230gr ammo, but if all I care about is bullseye, 185gr would be better because of the reduced recoil. Since the 1980's, I've always shot 185. I guess the best answer is to maybe try both of them again, and see how they compare in my own hands.

I agree. The best thing to do is to learn what these feel like when shooting for yourself. The calculators can tell you what the recoil impulse is in pounds per second but cannot tell you what they will feel like in any particular gun.

Also note that bullets vary in both weight, velocity and type.

Here is some decent 230 gr. match ammo which travels at 750 fps:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/32...l-metal-jacket-box-of-50?cm_vc=ProductFinding

Here some 185 gr. defensive ammo at 950 fps:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/55...d-hollow-point-box-of-20?cm_vc=ProductFinding

and some that claims 980 fps:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/17...in-jacketed-hollow-point?cm_vc=ProductFinding

Here some 200 gr. Lead semi wadcutter ammo:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/93...semi-wadcutter-box-of-20?cm_vc=ProductFinding

tipoc