Torn Out Primers When De-Capping

[Rexroach]

I've searched this in many forums and everyone comes to the conclusion that the primers are crimped in. I don't think so. Look at the cases on the left and you'll see the remains of the torn out primers. About 5% out of 2000 once-fired Speer .357 Sig cases tore out.

I think there is some sort of corrosion at work here. I tried soaking overnight with Kroil, drill bits, primer pocket reamers, etc. No joy.

There's no practical way to save the brass that I can see, but I'm wondering if anyone really knows what causes this? This is the first time in 42 years of reloading that I've seen this.

FYI, this brass was deprimed with a Lee de-capping die then tumbled in stainless pins and soapy water. It was only when I started to size the brass that I spotted the walls of the primers still in place in a few of them.

 

[Wil Terry]

In the business that is called a "Ringer."
It is caused by the primer stretching and weakening in the primer pocket and then the top being ripped off by a too vigorous stroke of the decapping pin. The latter's shape can also contribute to the problem.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I have never seen that before! The brass is new, the primers are not crimped and it's from a quality manufacturer, very strange...

Welcome to the forum.

 

[ReloaderFred]

I've seen it many, many times, but most often with PMC cases that have gotten wet. There is normally a white residue that effectively glues the primer into the pocket.

I've had it happen with .38 Special, .38 Super and 9x19 brass in several different brands, but it almost always involved the cases getting wet before I got them.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[Blue68f100]

I have only had that happen once in near 40 yrs of reloading. Mine was due to a crimped primer with sealer too.

357sig brass is kind of scarce in this area. If you need the brass I would buy a reamer and just clean the remains out. A reamer will not cut the pocket deeper, only cuts on the sides with a small bevel for starting. They only run around $16. The hard part would be holding them.

 

[Rexroach]

I'm pretty sure it's some sort of corrosion "glue job" as mentioned by several. The suggestion of it getting wet makes a lot of sense. I've been using that same Lee de-capper with 100% success for too many years to put the blame on it or my technique.

One of the solutions I tried was the Forster primer pocket reamer and holding the case was beyond my abilities.

This is certainly high quality brass, actually made for Speer by Starline as indicated by the little "S" on the headstamp. Being once-fired factory ammo from Speer, I don't suspect pressure issues. Besides, the six hundred or so that I have loaded showed no signs of primer pocket deformation and seated like "regular" primers with three different priming tools.

I think I have some more of these that have not been processed in any way by me. I will de-cap them and look for signs of the white residue.

By the way, what's the best way to include pictures in a post? Sorry for the noob question, but I've searched and searched for an answer. Best I could do was the attachment routine, but I'd like to put some in-line with text. I tried using the "insert image" and a link to my Dropbox folder, but no joy.

I've been reading The High Road forum for years and finally bit the bullet and signed up. Thanks for the discussion so far.

 

[rg1]

Only time I've had primers break and leave the "ring" left inside the pocket has been with brass that has gotten wet. I wouldn't wet tumble without removing the old primer first. I haven't had much luck getting the ring out without damaging the pocket but I've saved a few cases.

 

[joustin]

I have 300 BAD WCC 223 cases, one did that the other 30 or so just crack all the way around the neck when sizing

 

[Blue68f100]

By the way, what's the best way to include pictures in a post? Sorry for the noob question, but I've searched and searched for an answer. Best I could do was the attachment routine, but I'd like to put some in-line with text. I tried using the "insert image" and a link to my Dropbox folder, but no joy.

You have to use a hosting sight like Photobucket or Imageshack. and there is probably others too.

 

[Slamfire]

Only had that experience with WW2 30-06 primed cases. The primers had corroded to the pockets.

What was the previous life of the loaded ammunition?. Old gunpowder gives off nitric acid gas which will corrode brass and copper. If your ammunition was stored for a long time with deteriorating powder inside, maybe that is what caused this.

Or, did you super glue your primers before seating?

 

[Rexroach]

No clue as to the history of the brass. I bought it as once-fired.

 

[Rexroach]

As an update, I found some more of this batch of once-fired Speer .357 Sig brass and decapped some of it. After running 56 cases through the Lee decapper, two of them had the torn primer left behind while 54 did just fine.

Turns out there's white residue in the primer pockets of all of them.

Where the primer was completely removed, the bottom of the pocket has the white residue, but the sides are clean. For those with the primer "ring" left behind, the white residue is also on the inside walls of the primer.

I wonder if this brass was washed by the brass processor? I think a phone call is in order.

BTW, I mentioned the little "S" on the headstamp meant it was manufactured by Starline for Speer, but some of them have a "13" instead. Anyone know what that means?

 

[ReloaderFred]

Yes, the small "s" indicates Starline manufacture for Speer, and some will have smaller flash holes, especially some of the older ones. The "13" probably indicates the year of manufacture. If they were made for a government contract, that's the most likely explanation. All the government contract .40 S&W brass left behind by the Coast Guard at our range has year stamps on it.

A lot of brass sellers like to wash their brass in citric acid, which normally isn't a problem, but when left for long periods, I believe that's what causes the white residue in non-PMC cases. PMC uses a primer compound that leaves white residue all the time, and if it gets wet, it glues the primers in the pockets. I know it's not lead styphnate, and it's not Diazodinitrophenol (DDNP), or more commonly known as "non-toxic" priming compound, but I've never felt compelled to research it further to find out what it actually is...

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[BluewaterLa]

Try soaking the cases in diesel fuel, its thin enough to penetrate or transmission fluid, may have to soak for several days. Worth a shot if you still have some you have not de capped yet and suspect them of corrosion in the pockets

 

[KansasSasquatch]

Another vote for the cause being wet brass left to sit without being dried quickly.

The only time I've seen it was with .38 and .357 brass that I was given. It had been stored in a barn for at least 15 years. About 1/4 of it had that issue, then there was a good bit that was obviously corroded beyond use. Luckily there was 1k+ in that batch so the headache of sorting was worth it.

 

[rodregier]

I've had it happen with outdoor range floor pickups that have laid around for a while.
(No crimps). Around a 3% depriming failure rate.

This issue has driven me away from full progressively reloading range pickups,
since it's not possible to inspect for successful primer body removal as it progresses from
the resizing/depriming station to the priming station of a progressive press.
If you're resizing at the same time as priming in a progressive press, there is not enough mechanical feedback remaining to also detect inserting a primer into an already occupied primer pocket.

I've "fired" a few primers in the press as a result, which is not at all enjoyable or particularly safe.

I now lube my 9mmx19 cases (spray lube) and run them thru deprime/resize carbide die,
and check for empty primer pockets afterwards. The lube makes the resizing much easier in 9mmx19 (even with a carbide die), so I can race thru that phase of the process.

After that I load progressively.

 

[KansasSasquatch]

In my experience, when primers punch out like that there's normally a "tab" sticking out like you can see in the OP's 2nd picture. On a Hornady LNLAP that tab will lock the press up keeping the shellplate from rotating to the priming station. Also the priming station is sensitive enough that it'd be obvious there was a problem before a primer ended up getting mangled...... unless you go gorilla strength on priming.

But that said, all the brass that Ive processed with this problem was de-primed on a single stage. I made that decision before I found this problem simply because most of it was still pretty dirty after a long cleaning. Everytime I found a piece of brass like this it required removal of the shellholder, breaking the "tab" off, and towing the brass in my recycle bucket.

 

[rodregier]

I had deprimed cases with no tab remaining, just a sleeve left by the primer body in the primer pocket :-(

I'm using a Lee LoadMaster, no ready observation of the bottoms of the cases.

 

[Rule3]

If the primers are "welded" by the reaction of a acid wash solution to clean them, try soaking them in a solution of water (distilled if you want to invest a dollar) and pour in some baking soda to make it alkaline. Do not know if it will seep into the "crack" between the primer and the pocket but it will not hurt anything, Tap water has a lot of minerals in it and a PPM of over 300 or more.

Technically brass should not corrode but I see stuck brass fittings all the time with salt water and boat fittings Most corrosion in salts is due to dissimilar metals

 

[Arkansas Paul]

I've had it happen with outdoor range floor pickups that have laid around for a while.

That's the only time I've seen it as well. I picked up about 100 pieces of .38 Spcl brass at the range. Out of the 100, 4 or 5 did that. I didn't pay any attention to the headstamp.

 

[GP100man]

Bet it`s from wet tumble & slow drying.

I bought a batch of 357mag that looked like new , but every primer "ringered" had big fun prying em out with a small pocket screw driver!!

Your brass is shorter than mag brass so maybe a dowel of sorts inserted then pry em out ???