Transfer in state, NJ, of 22 rifle from uncle to myself

[riz_aaroni]

Hello all!

The title sums it up. My uncle has a 22 rifle that has been sitting around forever and I was wondering what the process was for transferring it, if that was needed, to myself. We both live in NJ, the gun has always been in NJ.

I've done some searching around online, but haven't been able to turn up anything clear enough to go on. Thanks for your help ahead of time!

-Aaron

 

[BhmBill]

Correct me if i'm wrong guys....

The buyer (you) must obtain a firearms purchasers identification card (FID). Then basically the seller (the uncle) must make out a bill of sale that identifies you, has your address, FID number, and states that you can possess firearms.

More info here...

http://www.nraila.org/statelawpdfs/NJSL.pdf

Good Luck

 

[Ned Kelly]

I am glad not to have to live in NJ. How do they get away with passing such Socialistic regulations?

 

[riz_aaroni]

I hope that isn't the case, really do. If my uncle didn't have a FID, I some how have to get one myself now just to get a rifle for free from a family member?

How about buying a gun at a gun show out of state, one that borders it and keeping it in your house? Need a FID for that? Was under the impression the FID was for purchasing guns at sporting goods stores and guns stores and not the actual possession of the firearm.

-Aaron

 

[BhmBill]

According to the NFA-ILA, you need a FID for private or dealer purchases. Without consulting the NJ statutes, I will not know for sure.

It varies so much state to state. I'm just now understanding and comprehending my own states, county, and city firearms, concealed carry, knife, deadly weapon, self defense, justifiable murder, 4th amendment, and various other laws.

I'd recommend you look up the NJ state laws regarding firearm transfers, possession, and sales.

This may help http://www.nj.gov/njsp/about/fire_ag2.html

 

[GRIZ22]

The seller or current owner of the rifle does not need a NJ FID. The buyer or recipient (you) does in order to receive the rifle. You don't need a bill of sale you need a Certificate of Elgibility which you can download from NJSP.org.

How about buying a gun at a gun show out of state, one that borders it and keeping it in your house? Need a FID for that? Was under the impression the FID was for purchasing guns at sporting goods stores and guns stores and not the actual possession of the firearm.


If you went out of state and bought a rifle from a private individual at a gun show both you and he have violated Federal law. If you buy a long gun from a dealer out of state, the sale requires you to have a NJ FID to be legal. Also you can't buy a rifle you couldn't buy in NJ for example any of what NJ refers to as "assault weapons", no deatchable mags over 15 rds etc.

 

[riz_aaroni]

I understood the part that the firearm has to be legal to NJ standards, though not on the other part. How would either part be violating federal law in this situation? I thought border states were alright without the need of a FID.

On a side note, not every state requires a FID for long gun purchases right?

And one more thing. For the Certificate of Eligibility, does that have to be submitted somewhere or just held onto by both parties involved?

 

[NavyLCDR]

riz,

Private party sales accross state lines without an FFL transfer are against Federal Law. Google "title 18 chapter 44" (without the quotes), select the cornell university link and look at section 922 (a)(3) and (a)(5). Out of state rifle purchases may be made at FFL's but the sale must comply with the laws of both the sellers and the buyers states (that's 922 (b)(3)), therefore, if you are purchasing a rifle from an out of state FFL, as a NJ resident, all NJ laws regarding the sale still apply. Private party sales of rifles between same state residents are allowed.

Federal laws also regulate handgun sales. Handguns may be purchased from same state residents as well, but if purchased from any out of state source (private party or FFL) the handgun must be shipped to an FFL in the buyers state of residence for transfer.

Any wording regarding contiguous states in the Federal law was deleted in a 1984? amendment to the 1968 GCA.

 

[Tom488]

And one more thing. For the Certificate of Eligibility, does that have to be submitted somewhere or just held onto by both parties involved?

Held on to by both seller and receiver... not submitted anywhere.

Also, as for the FID card requirement, it's spelled out in NJS 2C:58-3b:

b. Firearms purchaser identification card.
No person shall sell, give, transfer, assign or otherwise dispose of nor receive, purchase or otherwise acquire an antique cannon or a rifle or shotgun, other than an antique rifle or shotgun, unless the purchaser, assignee, donee, receiver or holder is licensed as a dealer under this chapter or possesses a valid firearms purchaser identification card, and first exhibits said card to the seller, donor, transferor or assignor, and unless the purchaser, assignee, donee, receiver or holder signs a written certification, on a form prescribed by the superintendent, which shall indicate that he presently complies with the requirements of subsection c. of this section and shall contain his name, address and firearms purchaser identification card number or dealer's registration number. The said certification shall be retained by the seller, as provided in section 2C:58-2a., or, in the case of a person who is not a dealer, it may be filed with the chief of police of the municipality in which he resides or with the superintendent.

Note that the last part says a non-dealer MAY submit his copy of the CoE to the chief of police... it doesn't say he HAS to.

 

[riz_aaroni]

Thank you for the clarification guys. I think I've come to the conclusion I am going to move out of NJ lol.

The thing that is most frustrating is that it is really hard to find all this and interpret it. How can I follow laws I don't know of or can't find? I feel a lot of people don't do things simply out of fear of ill effect. That and a lot of people convicted of things could have skipped all that if they simply knew the legal way to do it.

In any case, thanks again for the help. Truly appreciated.

-Aaron

 

[sawhitt]

You need to read the entire code. There are provisions for legally buying long guns from licensed out-of-state dealers.

title 18 USC 922 b.3 will clarify a bit.

I do not reside in NJ and have only a passing familiarity with their draconian firearms laws. I only know enough to realize that NJ is one of several states in which I will nor live because of its firearms laws.

I do know that I regularly and legally purchase firearms in Indiana and legally take them home to Kentucky. Long guns require that I meet the FFL face to face. Handguns require an FFL to FFL transfer.

There is no Federal Statute that denies me the right to purchase a long gun from an FFL in any US state FTF and transport the firearm myself.

In short; Individuals must have an FFL involved on at least the sellers end for any out-of-state transactions of long guns. And FFL is needed on both ends for handgun transactions.

With that being said, you must comply with state and local laws as well.

 

[riz_aaroni]

Ah. The federal law breaking of buying out of state would be buying from a individual or a non-FFL. I think.

Even if it is plenty legal to buy a rifle in say PA from a FFL without any special paperwork, I'd still need a FID in NJ for it to be legal? Not that it would matter at the time of sale, but simply because of NJ requiring a FID for firearm purchases?

 

[GRIZ22]

Even if it is plenty legal to buy a rifle in say PA from a FFL without any special paperwork, I'd still need a FID in NJ for it to be legal? Not that it would matter at the time of sale, but simply because of NJ requiring a FID for firearm purchases?

In summary, the sale to an out of state resident by a FFL must meet the requirements of both states. If you go to a FFL in PA, NY, DE, or any other state it's legal to buya long gun and you are a NJ resident the first thing the FFL is going to ask for is your NJ FID card. If a NJ resident goes to a state that has a waiting period he would need his NJ FID and wait the required time to get his long gun.

I'd still need a FID in NJ for it to be legal? Not that it would matter at the time of sale, but simply because of NJ requiring a FID for firearm purchases?

Your statement here is accurate. You need the NJ FID to buy the long gun in NJ so you need it to buy one in another state. You also have to meet the requirements of the state you're buying the long gun in.

 

[riz_aaroni]

I guess legally there is no escape of the FID card if I continue to reside in NJ. I'd apply for it, but I don't know if I will even be living here in the next couple of months when the card would come back. Shall have to see how things go I guess.

 

[eye5600]

Once upon a time, circa 1960, my grandfather drove from Pennsylvania with his Remington 22LR pump and handed it to me in NJ. I wanted it for a Boy Scout camping trip. No one gave any thought to the possibility of paperwork.

 

[riz_aaroni]

Another funny thing about society. Things were so strict in some ways years and years ago, but yet some other things weren't cared about all that much. Things change, though in weird ways.

It truly isn't the legality behind all this that annoys me the most, though it is a big part, it is the fact it is such a pain in the ass to do. You go here and there, pay this and that. Wait a while, then get it here and have to go there with it. Packing up my things....

 

[NavyLCDR]

I do know that I regularly and legally purchase firearms in Indiana and legally take them home to Kentucky. Long guns require that I meet the FFL face to face. Handguns require an FFL to FFL transfer.

There is no Federal Statute that denies me the right to purchase a long gun from an FFL in any US state FTF and transport the firearm myself.

In short; Individuals must have an FFL involved on at least the sellers end for any out-of-state transactions of long guns. And FFL is needed on both ends for handgun transactions.

With that being said, you must comply with state and local laws as well.

Handguns only require an FFL in the buyer's state of residence.

 

[stickhauler]

Yup....

But way back in time, in the 1960's, you could decide to buy a gun, grab a Sears catalog and fill out the order blank and a check or money order for the price plus shipping, send it off and a few weeks later it would arrive at your home by mail.

 

[riz_aaroni]

Imagine the days where you could just walk into the gun store, buy whatever you wanted without any care. Then go to the drug store for a headache, get some cocaine and then go on a hunting trip. Maybe it is good times change lol.