Tried a suppressed gun for the first time.

[Ed Ames]

...and honestly I'm pretty ticked off. The idea that a reactionary and ill-conceived law from the 1930s is making these hard to get and expensive is...aggravating.

So...what groups are there trying to forward suppressor rights (akin to the knife rights groups which have helped roll back some state anti-switchblade laws) at a national level, and how effective are they? Which groups do you support?

On the less charged side, it was a fun afternoon. I brought two guns, a 10/22 (50th contest model) and a Buckmark (Camper Whisper Lipsey's exclusive), both with factory threaded barrels, and we did quite a bit of shooting. My host had a Silencerco sparrow stainless. Together with the Buckmark it weighed about 40oz but was fairly muzzle heavy (the Buckmark has a bull barrel before you even get to the silencer) to a silencer noob. Still plenty usable. Of course you could barely feel the 6.5oz sparrow on the 10/22.

The experience pretty much convinced me I need some of these.

I assume the sparrow is a better-than-average suppressor? Would it be a mistake to buy one at this point or have they been eclipsed by something else?

My immediate desire is something for my RFB (7.62), for my .22s, then probably 5.56 and "finally" something for cf handguns. Whole bunch of research ahead...I'd welcome any insight or advice.

 

[entropy]

Not harder, just $200 more expensive, and a short wait, which yes, I agree shouldn't be necessary.

Every time I consider jumping into the NFA pool with one of these:



something comes up and wipes out the $$$ I had earmarked for it.

 

[Ed Ames]

Well, you need to get fingerprints and LEO signoffs, or a trust and go to a notary at least (and they want to add fingerprints etc. to trusts too), so to me it seems harder. Especially since money = work for me.

And if I chaffed at 10 day waits in California, months aren't going to seem "short" to me.

I now have my lawyer-drafted trust, so that's item one on the checklist completed.

 

[giggitygiggity]

The Sparrow is considered by most to be the best detachable .22 suppressor on the market today. Get one! Could it be eclipsed by something better in the future? Absolutely and I hope so... sure it stinks to buy some gun-related item and then find that something better is on the market, but it means that suppressors are getting quieter, lighter, and better when that happens. Also, if something does eclipse it, it never hurts to wait a while to let all the "must have buyers" test out the new product and find the bugs and flaws. I never buy a newly introduced gun or product simply because within a year, the manufacturer often creates a second generation based on discrepancies found in the initial release.

I must warn you that suppressors are addictive. You may be spoiled by having shot a .22 Sparrow suppressor because suppressed .22s are so quiet. The merely clicking of the action of a suppressed 10/22 is not the same sound that a suppressed .308WIN or .45ACP or even 9mm makes. Suppressed pistol rounds will sound more like paintball guns or a door slamming shut depending on caliber and the quality of the suppressor. Rifle rounds will usually still require hearing when suppressed.

And yes, you are absolutely right in that having to pay a $200 tax, request permission from the ATF, and wait around for a few months is utterly stupid. I would think that suppressors would be encouraged as they do not disturb neighbors and conserve hearing, but what do I know?

 

[DHJenkins]

A trust is the way to go. No fingerprints, LEO sign off or any other malarky. Should cost you about $125 (if you don't want to use will writing software), and you can use it again and again for all your NFA purchases.

Also, $200 may be expensive, but thanks to inflation it's becoming less and less so. When the NFA was passed, a maxim can was around $3 at your local hardware store. If the stamp price was adjusted every year it would run you about $5k in today's money (IIRC).

 

[Ed Ames]

Yeah, I know the tax is no longer punitive. Still kinda burns to have a tax and other hassles for doing the right thing as far as noise pollution and hearing damage is concerned.

Oh well. I have my trust. I have a plan for the .22 can. Now trying to decide on the next. Part of me says to get a 7.62 model to put on the RFB. The SilencerCo omega seems to be the choice of the day there?

Part of me wants to find a suppressor that could handle .454 casull from a carbine. I could have the muzzle of my 16" lever action .454 threaded. I could work up a subsonic 300gr+ load for that fairly easily. Would a .458 socom "rated for a .460 bullet" like the Bowers vers 458 work for that?

 

[wally]

Also, $200 may be expensive, but thanks to inflation it's becoming less and less so

But the LCW Pocket Rifle shown in the photo of post #2 requires two stamps, one for the Short Barrel Rifle and another for the suppressor.

In an attempt to get something like this with only a single stamp, SIG and others have floated the idea of selling "rifles" with the suppressor monocore permanently attached to make the "barrel" length be 16" and then you only pay the tax once to get the serialized tube that screws on to complete the suppressor.

I've never actually seen them offered for sale so don't know if they've got the go ahead from ATF to market them or not.

 

[Ed Ames]

I think Sig is actively suing the ATF over that welded on core thing right now, so no, they didn't get an ATF green light.

 

[entropy]

But the LCW Pocket Rifle shown in the photo of post #2 requires two stamps, one for the Short Barrel Rifle and another for the suppressor.

Well when I jump into a pool, it ususally ends up being a cannonball......

 

[mboylan]

I find the first round pop on a Sparrow to be annoying. I prefer the Spectre. No first round pop. Same company. Same high quality.

 

[MCMXI]

The Sparrow is considered by most to be the best detachable .22 suppressor on the market today.

I don't know about that. I have an AAC Element2 that is incredibly quiet, easy to take on/off, easy to disassemble, and should be easy to clean ... what's not to like? I like the one I have enough to order another a couple of days ago. The Element2 has a titanium mount and tube with 17-4 stainless steel baffles, is lighter and costs less than the Sparrow. There are quite a few suppressor manufacturers to choose from but I'm really sold on AAC products. I have seven with another on the way and have zero complaints. Their 51T and 90T flash hider/muzzle brake mounting systems are among the best out there. Also, every rifle I have that shoots well (sub 1.0 moa or sub 0.5 moa) has shot even better with an AAC suppressor attached.

http://www.advanced-armament.com/ELEMENT2_p_437.html

 

[flathats]

Have a look at Gemtech....

 

[Hyrulejedi86]

I second the Sparrow or Spectre II. They are absolutely excellent. I own both and love both but the sparrow has no equal when cleaning is a consideration. As someone mentioned the sparrow has the first round pop which bothers some but not others. Personally, I don't care about it because I get a very quiet can (after the FRP) that takes down easily and is short. As far as your rifle cans go just get a good 762 can and you can shoot your 223 through it as well with as good of performance as a dedicated 223 can.

 

[Ed Ames]

Just to check back in...

I now have three suppressors in tax stamp limbo. I decided on an Omega, an Osprey .45, and a Sparrow SS. I guess that makes me a SilencerCo fanboi, but it wasn't what I set out to do.

The challenge now is sorting out hosts. I have .22lr covered well enough. I have the RFB and an AR to take advantage of the Omega. I don't have anything I could mount the Osprey to without at least fitting a new barrel.

On the Omega side:

1. Does anyone make a 14x1mm inside thread to 5/8x24 outside thread adapter for fitting a silencer to a threaded-barrel Swedish Mauser?

2. I have a Savage 14 Euro Classic .308 (with iron sights)... Would I be better off having that threaded, or getting a pre-threaded gun? Savage sells "hog hunter" rifles with 5/8x24 threads for $450ish.

On the Osprey side:

1. The closest I have to a drop-in solution is a Glock 22. I could get a threaded barrel for that for $120ish iirc.

2. I'm very tempted to have one of my 1911s reworked as a silencer host. Raised sights and/or RMR, threaded barrel, etc.. Have any of you done that and if so what did you do and how did you like it?

3. Is there an "ideal" host I should be looking for? Not H&K, accurate, good balance with the suppressor attached, quiet, and just plain fun.

I have some time to think about this, but I'm interested in all thoughts and advice.

 

[pjeski]

Check with Mark McWillis at http://www.trosusa.com for adapters. If it can be made, he can make it and make it right.

 

[Theohazard]

The Sparrow is considered by most to be the best detachable .22 suppressor on the market today.

I don't know about that. I have an AAC Element2 that is incredibly quiet, easy to take on/off, easy to disassemble, and should be easy to clean ... what's not to like?

He's definitely correct that the Sparrow is considered by most to be the best .22 can out there, but that doesn't mean the Element isn't great too. You said it "should be easy to clean", which tells me you haven't yet tried to take it apart when it was really dirty. And that's where the Sparrow shines (and why it's so popular); it's by far the easiest .22 can to disassemble when dirty. The Sparrow comes apart in seconds with no tools no matter how dirty it is. The Element, on the other hand, needs one tool to take the endcap off and another tool to push the baffles out. Pushing the baffles out is easy when it's clean, but -- due to the Dater holes in the baffles -- it can be a pain to push the baffles out when the can is really dirty and leaded up.

Now, the Element's baffle design is what allows it to be compact, quiet, and have virtually no first-round-pop (the Sparrow has a noticable first-round-pop on a pistol), and that's why the Sparrow and Spectre have to be a little bigger in order to be just as quiet. But both the Sparrow and Spectre are a lot easier to disassemble when dirty, and that's why they're more popular than the Element.

There are quite a few suppressor manufacturers to choose from but I'm really sold on AAC products. I have seven with another on the way and have zero complaints.

AAC makes very good products, and I'm very happy with my SDN-6, but at the moment their cans are mostly eclipsed by their main competitor SilencerCo, as often happens in a business like this one with a lot of innovation constantly occurring. As a whole, I think SilencerCo is making better cans than AAC is at the moment. Of course, that could change in a few years, but that's the current trend. And since AAC got bought out by Freedom Group, I expect their downward trend to continue.

All across their respective product lines, SilencerCo is making better products. Yes, in some areas AAC's cans have a few advantages, but SilencerCo's cans have far more. And, with their flagship rifle cans, SilencerCo has AAC beat in every single way; the Saker 7.62 ties or beats the SR-7 in every single category I can think of. Again, that doesn't mean AAC doesn't make good cans, it just means that SilencerCo is currently making better ones.

Their 51T and 90T flash hider/muzzle brake mounting systems are among the best out there.

That's definitely not true. Their new 90T taper mount is a big improvement over their 51T mount, but it's still not as good as what SilencerCo has been making for several years. And the 51T is one of the least-solid mounts in the business; it has a noticable rotational wiggle that shows up on about 75% of muzzle devices. And this can change depending on how worn the rachet system is, and also how worn the teeth on the mount are. When the SilencerCo Saker came out and they offered an option for it to mount to the AAC 51T mounts, it was pretty embarrassing for AAC that SilencerCo's can fit the AAC mount better than the AAC cans did.

Now, is this rotational wiggle a big deal? For some people yes, and others no. It doesn't bother me too much, but it's definitely a weakness in their design. The new 90T taper mount fixes the wiggle problem, but it's still slower to use than many other companies' mounts.

 

[wally]

I'm very tempted to have one of my 1911s reworked as a silencer host. Raised sights and/or RMR, threaded barrel, etc.. Have any of you done that and if so what did you do and how did you like it?

I fitted a Storm-Lake barrel to my 9mm RIA Tactical. Wasn't too difficult, invest in some DyKem to show where things are binding. I also switched from the full length guide rod back to a standard plug and short rod. I'd already installed the RMR sight using a mount that replaces the rear sight.

Since I shoot a lot of hard cast lead reloads I only use the threaded barrel when I shoot jacketed bullets suppressed. I don't find enough POA/POI shift when changing barrels to bother with adjusting the RMR -- mostly I shoot steel plates at 10-15 yards.


I've also been happy with with the Lone Wolf 9mm conversion barrel I have for my Glock 22. I used my Osprey 45 with 1/2x28 piston with my 9mm pistols until I got a dedicated 9mm can. I have an FNP Tactical and SIG TacOps that came with threaded barrels for .45ACP.

The Sparrow comes apart in seconds with no tools no matter how dirty it is.

I'd take issue with that, while the Sparrow is far easier than anything else I've tried, after 1000 rounds of bulk pack ammo I need to drive the core out with a wooden dowel and rubber mallet. I try not to let it go so long before cleaning, burning up 1000 rounds in an outing was pretty easy when .22lr ammo was cheap and plentiful pre-Sandy Hook panic.

 

[Theohazard]

The Sparrow comes apart in seconds with no tools no matter how dirty it is.

I'd take issue with that, while the Sparrow is far easier than anything else I've tried, after 1000 rounds of bulk pack ammo I need to drive the core out with a wooden dowel and rubber mallet.

I've taken a few dirty Sparrows apart, and all I had to do was give the core a good whack with my palm (or once on the floor when that didn't work) after I took the endcap off, and then the insides came right out. But, to be fair, I've never taken a Sparrow apart that had more than about 500 - 800 rounds through it (by the owners' best estimates).

Either way, I think we can agree that the Sparrow is still the easiest .22 can to take apart when dirty.

 

[coloradokevin]

The tax stamp stuff is definitely annoying. Of equal annoyance is the "short" waiting time to get the stamp. My first suppressor took 11 months to get. I've had an e-filed (trust) Form 1 in the queue for two months and counting now.

It's a ridiculous process caused by a stupid law that shouldn't even exist.