Trigger shims, Hardening etc.

[atblis]

I am working on the trigger to my 77/22. I already have the Volq. sear and it helped. I've been adjusting the angles on the trigger, but I've found that there's some much play in the sear and trigger that it gets goofy quick. Anybody know a cheap source of shims? I know brownells sells them, but they're like 14 bucks for ten of them.

Also, I've read the instructions on the net regarding stoning the trigger. It never mentions anything about the metal. I was under the impression that Ruger trigger parts are cast, and then surface hardened. Do they need to be rehardened after stoning?

 

[Sunray]

You shouldn't be adjusting any angles. Just polish out the tool marks and change the springs. No stones required. Ruger internal parts are investment cast. Basically powdered steel that gets pressed together under pressure. Not hardened by heat treating at all, as I recall.

 

[Taurus 617 CCW]

Cast parts are heat treated and when you remove metal from them, you will find that the trigger pull is nice for a while. However, over time the part will wear down more rapidly and the trigger pull will feel like glass scraping across concrete. Once you remove the surface from a cast part, you can not fix it anymore. Re-heat treating the part will result in it becoming very brittle.

One more thing, messing with the engagement angles of the sear and hammer create a very unsafe condition in the firearm. My suggestion is to replace the part and take it to a qualified gunsmith for an action smoothness job.

Investment cast is very different from the powdered metal previously described. Powdered metal is actually called Cintered metal. Investment cast metal is poured into a ceramic mold, cooled slowly, and then heat treated to resist wear.

 

[atblis]

Hmmm

One more thing, messing with the engagement angles of the sear and hammer create a very unsafe condition in the firearm. My suggestion is to replace the part and take it to a qualified gunsmith for an action smoothness job.

Boy, you guys are no fun.

I am actually quite aware of the possibilities. Semiautomatic pistols can do amusing things if you get angles wrong (potentially not so amusing). Fortunately, I have a Power Custom Jig, and some idea of what I am doing.

Do you guys have any practical experience with Ruger trigger parts, or are you regurgitating internet info?

I am interested in hardening if needed. It is cast stainless steel, which complicates things as Kasenit probably won't work.

Guns are machines made from metal, wood, and plastic. Not some magical devices. Gunsmiths would like you to think this for obvious reasons. However, for things like this kind of trigger work, this is strictly a range only proposition. The only time there will be a round in the chamber, this particular rifle will be pointed down a live range. Hence the reason I am not concerned. If it doesn't work out, I buy a SpecTec/RifleBasix/whatever trigger and replace it.

 

[jaybar]

Not exactly !!!

Cast parts are heat treated and when you remove metal from them, you will find that the trigger pull is nice for a while. However, over time the part will wear down more rapidly and the trigger pull will feel like glass scraping across concrete. Once you remove the surface from a cast part, you can not fix it anymore. Re-heat treating the part will result in it becoming very brittle.

Heat treating and case-hardening are not the same process. Ruger parts are investment cast and then heat treated such that they are the same hardness throughout. There is no "surface" to remove on a Ruger hammer or sear, they are homogeneously hard throughout.

Do you guys have any practical experience with Ruger trigger parts, or are you regurgitating internet info?

This is the the voice of quite a bit practical experience on trigger jobs on various Rugers (MKI's,II's,III's,22-45's, Single-Sixes, Blackhawks, Redhawks, Gp-100's, SP-100's, Security-Sixes as well as ,77-22's, 77-44's)

Check out this link for an excellent description of how to do a trigger job on the 77-22 http://www.centerfirecentral.com/77trigger.html Changing the angles as shown and replacing springs will result in an outstanding trigger on your 77-xx.

Most of the left-right wiggle that you feel as "trigger-slop" is a result of the hole in the trigger being a loose fit in the trigger pivot pin. You can get rid of most of the "trigger slop" by drilling the hole in the trigger to a tighter fit. Find a drill bit that is one size bigger than the hole in the trigger. Use it to drill out the hole in the trigger and the corresponding holes in the frame. Cut off the shank of the drill to the same length as the factory installed trigger pivot pin. Use the drill shank as the new trigger pivot pin. Use a drill press to make sure you drill the holes precisely.

 

[atblis]

Thanks.

The above link, is the one I am using as a reference. I was wondering about the Ruger parts, as nobody ever mentions them being surface hardened.

The jig is nice, as I can change the angle in increments.

The only problem I have now is that there is so much slop in the trigger and sear, that precise surface engagements are not possible. I am evaluating reaming everything out and using a larger pin, but I think I'll try shims first. The drill bit thing sounds good, but I want to try non permanent alterations first.

Thanks,
Andrew

 

[Taurus 617 CCW]

Do you guys have any practical experience with Ruger trigger parts, or are you regurgitating internet info?

I am a student at the Colorado School of Trades for gunsmithing but I guess you're set on doing your own stuff. Good luck and be safe.

 

[atblis]

Well

Yes, I do do all my own work when ever possible. The same with all my vehicles as well. That's half the fun.

Again, I acknowledge the safety concerns present, but as stated before this gun will be a range queen.

Taurus 617 CCW, I was serious when I asked have you actually worked on Ruger triggers. You made a generalization about castings, but have provided no specific information on Ruger parts. Casting is a very broad term, and not all castings are the same. If you are under the impression that castings are categorically inferior, that is something you might want to reevaluate.

I also realize that most of the responses were geared toward the average internet idiot who would simply file away at a sear/trigger with no regard to the intricacies involved. I am a special kind of idiot willing to invest in the special tools necessary, and replace parts if I screw up. Fortunately, that doesn't happen as much as it used to.