Troops pay to get better gear Standard equipment lacking in some cases

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http://www.usatoday.com/usatonline/20030626/5275812s.htm

Troops pay to get better gear Standard equipment lacking in some cases

By John Diamond
USA TODAY


WASHINGTON -- The U.S. soldiers who invaded Iraq went into battle with the most modern and lethal equipment ever carried by an armed force. In some cases, they paid for it themselves.

Combat soldiers interviewed by an Army investigative team after the capture of Baghdad reported that they dipped into their own pockets to buy such accessories as pistol holsters, rucksacks, boot soles, underwear, rifle sights, global-positioning-system handsets and field radios, rather than use Army-issue versions.

''Soldiers still spend too much of their own money to purchase the quality packs, pouches, belts, underwear, socks and gloves they believe they need for mission success and comfort,'' says a report drafted by Program Executive Office Soldier, the unit in charge of developing equipment for Army combat soldiers. A copy of the draft was obtained by USA TODAY.

The Army investigative team heard complaints of socks that were too hot, boot soles unable to handle the Iraqi terrain, a pistol magazine that sometimes failed to feed a bullet into the chamber, and field radios too weak to reach friendly units a few city blocks away.

While the Pentagon equips the military using regulation-bound procedures, soldiers for years have bought equipment based on word-of-mouth advice about what works best in combat. By interviewing troops just after the war, the Army is tapping into that wisdom.

''You do better going to L.L. Bean,'' says retired Army colonel Kenneth Allard, who headed a team that urged more off-the-shelf purchases back in 1994. ''It has been a scandal for so long because it takes so long to get Gore-Tex; it takes so long to get everything the typical mountain-climbing expedition has as a matter of course.''

The draft report found that some of the government-issued gear performed well. Body armor saved lives; sniper rifles were lethal at nearly a mile; the M-4 rifle outperformed the Iraqis' AK-47s; and tools such as battle axes and bolt cutters proved highly useful in urban combat.

But the report, written by Army Lt. Col. Jim Smith, cites example after example of soldiers using their own money to buy gear they felt performed better in combat than items provided at taxpayer expense.
 
Be interesting if the gummint would reimburse the G.I.s for the stuff they bought. "How much did you pay for that pair of socks soldier?" "$600 sir." "Take a check?"
 
Right at the beginning of this war, I was getting ready to go to Gunsite for a class. It was my first formal shooting class and I needed to buy all kinds of stuff for it. I found that I couldn't get most of the stuff I wanted because every where I called, they told me they were out of everything because they sold it to the soldiers that were being deployed. I posted a negative thread on this board about one such company; Lightfighter. They had appearently sold everything down to the bare walls and beyond; the owner sold his own gear; they are located right outside the Ft. Cambell gate appearently.
Some of the other stuff was being bought up by the government. At that time, getting an Aimpoint ML2 optical sight for an AR was very difficult although I was able to find one eventually. This model is less desireable to the military because it is not designed for use with night vision equipment.

The thing that I found hard to believe is that GIs can afford this stuff. I spent more in gear for that trip to Gunsite than I made in three months when I was in the big green machine.

"the M-4 rifle outperformed the Iraqis' AK-47s" :D :neener:
 
I can personally confirm that this practice is widespread.

I probably spent over $100 just on random gear. The best investment was probably the 3-point sling for the M-16 though. Talk about convenience!

Other things that other Marines bought included: GPS receivers (more dependable and a lot smaller), TalkAbout radios, CamelBaks, larger packs, hi-speed pistol holsters, drop leg holsters for M-16 mags, scopes, Surefire lights, those mini LED lights, and LOTS and LOTS of baby wipes etc. Gotta have the best if you're going to war. :)

I saw a few axes, but I didn't see people use them for much except for throwing at trees and dogs.
 
What's the news? Go to any surplus store and compare a standard issue sleeping bag or cooking kit with what you can find in a camping store. Compare milspec boots with something like Original Swat's 9" side-zip. Compare...compare....compare. No comparison.
 
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The thing that I found hard to believe is that GIs can afford this stuff. ___________________________________________________________

How could they afford not to....
 
Well not to beat a dead horse, it wasn't that I had to change my priorities to buy stuff like this; I flat out didn't make enough to buy stuff like this. I was making less than 20% of what I make today.
 
444,

Thankfully, the military has recieved some good pay raises recently, although they'll never be paid what they're worth. I know I spent quite a bit of money during my 8 years buying the stuff Uncle Sugar was too cheap to buy for me.

As far as Lightfighter goes, they're actually a pretty decent company. In fact, I was in their store this afternoon. The owner and all of his employees are former military and they fully support our troops. Since they opened their doors last year, they've been doing a good business. Their prices are competitive and they have a fairly good sized stock, especially considering how small of an outfit they are. And, yes, round about February, they were rather low on stock.
 
OEF_VET
I have heard nothing but good things about Lightfighter. If you missed the thread I posted, the problem I had with them was that they couldn't be bothered to tell me that they didn't have anything I ordered. They left me sitting here thinking the stuff was coming.
 
Businesses need to keep a military discount program going and possibly
offer specials for soldiers called to active duty.

I was told it takes 2 years for the military to get a new item into the supply chain. There is no need for our troops to do without for that long.
 
444,

I missed your original thread, thanks for the clarification. I hope they eventually made it up to you. They are definitly a good company. It's nice to be able to walk into the store and deal with the owner, knowing that he's personally used the stuff he sells in a 'real-world' environment, compared to their competitor down the street, U.S. Cav. US Cav is a good company, but buying a piece of gear from a dependant who gets paid $6/hour and has never used the gear isn't the same as buying it from a person who owns the store and has used the gear.
 
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