I recently got a Dillon 550 to load 9 mm and .223. My first efforts with the .223 won't all chamber in our two DPMS rifles. I talked to Dillon and ordered one of their gages and trimmed eveything as indicated. Some rounds still won't chamber, but they work in my Remington Model Seven. Dillon said I had a tight chamber, so I got a RCBS small base die. That didn't help. I've found that I can get the rounds to chamber by sizing them twice in my Lyman full lenghth die, but this is extra work. What am I missing?
Trouble with loads working in AR
- Thread starter mtcur3
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koja48
member
What brass are you using? Is the gauge you referenced a headspace gauge?
I'm using once fired winchester brass. I'm not sure on the gage. If you follow this link you will see what I have.
http://www.dillonprecision.com/#/content/p/9/pid/23612/catid/3/_223_Dillon_Stainless_Steel_Case_Gage
Thanks
http://www.dillonprecision.com/#/content/p/9/pid/23612/catid/3/_223_Dillon_Stainless_Steel_Case_Gage
Thanks
koja48
member
I'm not familiar with Dillon products . . . looks like a length gage from what I can see. Do the instructions provide guidance for evaluating the head end of the case (i.e., case head should be above the lower reference point & below the gage-end reference)? If you fired the brass the first time in your AR & it worked, it's possible that your resizing die may need to be adjusted a bit lower.
Ideally, the case head should be between the 2 datum lines, but closer to the end/top. A 223 case in my Lyman drops right in & back out and looks like this:
Ideally, the case head should be between the 2 datum lines, but closer to the end/top. A 223 case in my Lyman drops right in & back out and looks like this:
243winxb
Member
shell plate adjustment
The shell plate may need to be set tighter. The large screw that hold the plate, turn it in so the shell plate will not rotate. Now back it off just a little so the shell plate moves freely. Next, set your full length sizing die this way. Run the ram all the way up, screw in your full length resizing die till it can't turn down any move using your hand. Now back off the ram/shell plate and turn die down another 1/8 turn or so. Lock the die. This might fix your problem, UNLESS your brass was fired in another gun (not yours). Remember flrs dies don't size all the way to the head. If the brass is from another gun, is can be your problem.
The shell plate may need to be set tighter. The large screw that hold the plate, turn it in so the shell plate will not rotate. Now back it off just a little so the shell plate moves freely. Next, set your full length sizing die this way. Run the ram all the way up, screw in your full length resizing die till it can't turn down any move using your hand. Now back off the ram/shell plate and turn die down another 1/8 turn or so. Lock the die. This might fix your problem, UNLESS your brass was fired in another gun (not yours). Remember flrs dies don't size all the way to the head. If the brass is from another gun, is can be your problem.
threefeathers
member
First, anytime you use Winchester 223 brass you HAVE to check the length. No brass you have will grow like Winchester. I went to the RCBS Xdie with a small base. I flat solved my problems.
I'm working offshore right now and will not be able to check out my Dillon case gage for a week or so. If I remember right the neck sticks out and it tells you when you need to trim it. I'm not sure though. It's been six months since I loaded .223. I'm doing an Apple Seed shoot in October and will need to load about 800 rounds for the family to shoot. I am using brass that was not fired in my gun. I have the RCBS small base die and I will try and adjust the 550 as suggested. Is it possible the shoulder angle is slightly off? Please excuse my ignorance, but is there a way to check that the case is precisely factory spec? I'm appreciate all who are helping me in this matter.
243winxb
Member
.223 Dillon stainless steel case gage
http://www.ar15.com/lite/topic.html?b=1&f=9&t=414723 This looks like a gage to check if your Full length sized brass will fit in a .223 chamber. Mostly useless i would think as all chambers are different. The biggest difference being between 5.56mm nato and .223 rem. The gage may be usefull to check trim length.
http://www.ar15.com/lite/topic.html?b=1&f=9&t=414723 This looks like a gage to check if your Full length sized brass will fit in a .223 chamber. Mostly useless i would think as all chambers are different. The biggest difference being between 5.56mm nato and .223 rem. The gage may be usefull to check trim length.
243winxb
Member
http://www.ar15.com When you Full lenght resize, the shoulder is pushed back. This lets the round chamber. You said if you run the case into the Lyman die 2 times, then the round will chamber. All you need to do (i think) is make adjustment on the shell plate and die like i said above. One of the basic rules of reloading is Don't use brass fired in a different rifle. But we all do this, some times having chambering problems.
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snuffy
Member
On that dillon link to the case gauge, click to enlarge that picture. You will then be able to see the two cuts across the top of the gauge. Those you use to determine the amount you are sizing the brass, so you can set the die accordingly.
I'd be willing to bet that your cases are NOT sized enough, the shoulder needs to be set back more. Your cases would then stick out beyond the top of the gauge. They need to be in the middle between the high limit and the low limit.
I'd be willing to bet that your cases are NOT sized enough, the shoulder needs to be set back more. Your cases would then stick out beyond the top of the gauge. They need to be in the middle between the high limit and the low limit.
What you are experiencing is very common. Folks have all sorts of problems getting once fired brass to feed in a new gas gun. The stuff was of course fired in some huge ballon chamber and the sizing die is not small enough to reduce it down to fit in the new chamber.
The fact that you have to double pump when sizing brass indicates that the brass is too large for your chamber.
First of all you are doing the right thing by purchasing a cartridge headspace gage. Gaging is good. Size your cases to gage miminum.
Unfortunately these commerical case gage only measures length. Not "fatness". A sized but fat cast will drop right in that gage, but will not drop in the chamber.
Sometimes brass is so large that even a small base die won't be able to reduce it enough. Maybe that is what is happening with you.
Don't toss the brass. If you have a bolt gun, and a block of wood, it can be loaded and shot. Just keep the muzzle down range when wacking the bolt! If you have a commerical reloader around, as in my area, you can send the brass for resizing. These guys have machines the like of which you don't have. Their equipment will reduce the bases down to factory dimensions.
The fact that you have to double pump when sizing brass indicates that the brass is too large for your chamber.
First of all you are doing the right thing by purchasing a cartridge headspace gage. Gaging is good. Size your cases to gage miminum.
Unfortunately these commerical case gage only measures length. Not "fatness". A sized but fat cast will drop right in that gage, but will not drop in the chamber.
Sometimes brass is so large that even a small base die won't be able to reduce it enough. Maybe that is what is happening with you.
Don't toss the brass. If you have a bolt gun, and a block of wood, it can be loaded and shot. Just keep the muzzle down range when wacking the bolt! If you have a commerical reloader around, as in my area, you can send the brass for resizing. These guys have machines the like of which you don't have. Their equipment will reduce the bases down to factory dimensions.
You have never knocked off a soldered bolt like I have, eh SlamFire1. I knocked one off a Hall benchrest action. Talk about sick to my stomach
Fortunately for me, Alan Hall lives here in Alabama along with you and I. I gave him the bolt at a match and he fixed it cheap with only the short drive to Clanton for me to pick it up. Well, that and a small A** chewing.
P-32
Member
I ran into this very problem when I switched from shooting 308 in a gas gun (M-1) to 223 in a gas gun. (AR-15). I shoot NRA High Power and go through plenty of ammo which needs to be problem free.
In a nut shell, I discovered I needed to have the bottom of the size die kissing the shell holder enough to cause a little resistance on cam over on the press. Once I got my die screwed down far enough, problem solved.
I use Hornaday match bushing dies to resize my match ammo. I found I had to turn the 223 die down futher than the 308 die.
In a nut shell, I discovered I needed to have the bottom of the size die kissing the shell holder enough to cause a little resistance on cam over on the press. Once I got my die screwed down far enough, problem solved.
I use Hornaday match bushing dies to resize my match ammo. I found I had to turn the 223 die down futher than the 308 die.
ftierson
Member.
What P-32 says...
If your resizing die won't resize the brass enough, no matter what it was fired in originally, something is wrong with the die or it's adjustment...
Bottom out the sizing die on the shellholder when resizing. That'll fix the problem.
Forrest
If your resizing die won't resize the brass enough, no matter what it was fired in originally, something is wrong with the die or it's adjustment...
Bottom out the sizing die on the shellholder when resizing. That'll fix the problem.
Forrest
snuffy
Member
Not always. That's precisely why you need the case gauge, to determine IF you actually need to get that tight. Some chambers are on the long side, a bit towards too much headspace. Now couple that with a too thin shell holder, or a die that's a bit too short, you will end up with case head separations. Like what happened to me with my Savage .308. I did as the instructions said to de, turn the die down tight against the shell holder. That caused incipient case head separations in only two reloads. I got a wilson gauge, I was.012 UNDER minimum shoulder to case head measurement!
Mine will measure the "fatness" of the case as well. I doubt that an over sized case would slip right into the case gauge.
Slamfire, I think what you're referring to is brass fired in a sloppy machine gun chamber. he says;
It could have been WCC brass fired in a MG, but I doubt it.
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