TX CCW w/o license - in home? in apt complex? Armed Robbery tonite...

Status
Not open for further replies.
P

Pendragon

Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2002
Messages
1,361
Location
Austin, Texas
So I still have not got my TX CHL. Thats another story.

We are now in Austin, in an apartment in what I think is a decent area (on Metric Blvd).

My washing machine sprung a bad leak and I am using the laundry room - its a good 100 yards or more away and on my way back from changing the clothes to the dryer, I see a police car rolling slowly up - no lights.

Cop is nice - have I seen a black guy? No.

Heads up, there was just a robbery at gun point here.

Woa.

I decided to pickup the laundry in the morning rather than at 1:30am.

Now - in CA, you can CCW in your home, business and your property. I assume TX is the same but I am wondering - if I CCW to the laundry room, am I doing it "at home"?

In CA its a misdemeanor and people aint looking for guns so much. Here, its a serious felony to CCW sans permit.

The irony is - I was literally thinking about what a nice area this was and how crime seemed unlikely - although plenty possible due to lighting, lack of crime repelling forcefields, etc. Also thought that if I was a woman, I would CCW for certain - even to the laundry.

Any thoughts? Yes, I am working on getting TX CHL. Wife goes back to CA for a couple weeks - will take class then...

CCW in the common areas?
 
Yikes!

Your apartment is your home, but I don't know whether it's so clear that common areas are.

Consider keeping a shotgun in your apartment - long guns are less restricted than handguns.

There are a few other Texas attorneys here, so hopefully you'll hear from someone more knowledgeable than me. Meanwhile, I think packing.org gives you a link to the latest Texas laws.
 
Welcome to Austin.

I'm not a lawyer, but your apartment is your home. You have no need to have a license to own, possess, or carry a firearm within your own home.

Common areas of the apartment building now . . . I don't think they'd qualify as "home." On the other hand, if you're carrying properly concealed. who would know?

On the other other hand, the local DA in Austin, Ronnie Earle, is a known "anti" and hostile to TX CHL. If you're arrested, he just might want to prosecute. A persuasive argument by a good (read "expensive") lawyer that laundry areas in your own building qualify as "home" might win acquittal, but even so, it would cost you some serious time & money.

My thinking on this (I'm not a lawyer, I don't give advice!) is don't get caught carrying illegally, and get your CHL ASAP.
 
Carrying a gun to the laundry room 100 yards away, concealed or not, would violate the TX statute regarding carrying guns. First, there is NO provision in TX law for open carry. Second, without a CHL you are restricted to carrying within your home (i.e. the apt. itself) or business - that's about it. You can also have a gun in your car on the way to/from the gun store or range, but without a CHL it must be locked up or outside of your reach. Carrying to a place 100 yards away from your apartment would almost certainly be verboten.

The thing is that concealed is concealed - no one will ever know that you have it, but if you ever have to use the gun to defend yourself then you'll get in a world of trouble. If you were single, that would be one thing-but I know that you've got a family that depends on you. I know that having a family has changed my perspective not a little, and it has probably done the same to you.

Get thee a CHL, pronto.
 
Welcome to Austin! The Metric Blvd area is a nice part of town, but not without risks. I have lived in the area for almost 7 years, and have had one incident: one of our cars was left unlocked overnight and someone stole the factory stereo out of our Subaru station wagon (that stereo was crap, so it was kind of a favor).

I would agree with what the others have said regarding carrying to the laundry area. It's not inside your home or business so unlicensed carry would be illegal. Get that CHL!
 
It wouldn't be a felony in Texas but it would be a Class A misdemeanor. This is a serious, disabling offense that puts you in second class citizenship status for five years rather than for life as would a felony.
 
thanks guys - it is as I suspected.

I have no intention of going through the hassle of moving from CA to TX only to be caught CHL-less and rendered gunless.

My hitch has been getting my TX drivers license - cant get that until you register the car - could not do that until it passed the inspection which I had to fix like 3 or 4 things to do.

Anyway - I got the sticker a few months ago but lack of $$ kept me from registering. I should be legal in a couple weeks - just in time to take my CHL class at the end of June when my family flys back home (without me) for a few weeks.

BTW - still have not been shooting since I moved here.

I am going to need to put a few thousand rounds downrange come late June/early July.

Anyone that wants to hook up and show me a good range in Austin - send me a PM...
 
Red's north in Pflugerville is an indoor facility-probably a good bet. North on 35.

Sounds like you're about there but a DPS ID card will work as well as a drivers license for chl purposes.
 
Sam Adams wrote.......
You can also have a gun in your car on the way to/from the gun store or range, but without a CHL it must be locked up or outside of your reach.
Click to expand...

That's not quite right, Sam.

PC §46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on
or about his person a handgun, illegal knife, or club.
Click to expand...

"On or about his person" is the key here and I have been told by LEO's and CHL instructors that it means somewhere within reach. But........

(b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:

(4) is engaging in lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting activity
on the immediate premises where the activity is conducted, or is
directly en route between the premises and the actor's residence, if the weapon is a type commonly used in the activity;
Click to expand...

Therefore, you may have a weapon "on or about your person" if you are directly enroute to or from a legitimate activity. I am not aware of any regulation requiring locked boxes or compartments and Texas law does not differentiate between loaded and unloaded firearms.
 
Therefore, you may have a weapon "on or about your person" if you are directly enroute to or from a legitimate activity. I am not aware of any regulation requiring locked boxes or compartments and Texas law does not differentiate between loaded and unloaded firearms.
Click to expand...

A fellow down around Houston shot and killed a BG (a guy in a shopping center who was in the process of murdering his ex, as I recall) with a pistol he was carrying loaded, within reach in his vehicle "on his way to the gun range" about ten years ago. He wasn't prosecuted.

As far as I'm aware the Texas law makes no distinction about how the pistol is carried, the distinction is in whether the reason you're carrying it falls under one of the exceptions written into the law. Now I don't know if the DPS haven't created some "rule" whereby they arrest based upon how the weapon is carried, state police agencies are famous for that, but I don't think it would fly in front of a Texas jury.
 
There's a case-law exception for "travelling" too if you're curious - me, I think it's simpler to just get your @E%@#&$ CHL license now.

If you don't have a CHL, I've been told that it's very helpful/advisable to have your piece out of reach - in the trunk, or bed, or in the rear loading area of an SUV. (I'm not saying that this is a requirement, just that I've been told it can add to the comfort level of a cop who may happen to stop you.) If you're a fisherman, some people would suggest that you keep your fishing rod in the trunk too.
 
Prior to the passage of the CHL act, about 2800 people a year were being arrested for UCW. That number shows up again in post chl statistics. Traveling is now statutorially exempted under the law. The only problem is that traveling is not statutorially defined leaving all kind of discression in the hands of law officers who often don't know the laws anyway.

It is now legal to carry a handgun in a vehicle with sleeping quarters regardless of travel status or mode of carry. These are now defined as extensions of residence.

back aroudn 1979 the penal code was revised and thats when the sporting activity exception came in. The knife or pistol had to be " of a type used in the intended sporting activity." Fishermen interpreted this to mean that they could carry a pistol while fishing. Police interpreted it that they could carry a filleting knife but not a pistol.

One north texas Shurf stopped a guy with a Colt Python in his car. On top of the python was a Bushnell Phantom Pistol scope. Arrested him on the spot.
" Thet thar shore weren't no huntin' gun!"
 
If I were you I would get your CCW as soon as possible and be careful in the next couple of weeks.
 
I'm always careful.

I am not breaking the law.

edit: CHL law - I think I am breaking the car laws - got pulled over a couple months ago (on my way home from interview up here in Austin) and cop was nice - told me to get it taken care of, but I had proof of insurance and the safety sticker so I think he figured I was on my way and legally responsible. Still - I think it was his discretion...
 
Prior to the passage of the CHL act, about 2800 people a year were being arrested for UCW. That number shows up again in post chl statistics. Traveling is now statutorially exempted under the law. The only problem is that traveling is not statutorially defined leaving all kind of discression in the hands of law officers who often don't know the laws anyway.
Click to expand...

A very good point. I believe traveling has been legally defined as "a legitimate journey" by the courts, but that still leaves a lot of latitude, and there is the potential for getting arrested and spending the night in jail on an offense that no jury would convict for. One police officer shared with me that he arrested a fellow for DWI and put an additional charge on him for UCW, driving between Dallas and Rockwall, about 30 miles. The trial judge threw out the UCW charge, said the guy was "traveling" without even letting it go to the jury. I have heard "traveling" defined as crossing two county lines or an overnight trip, but I don't know if that's a genuine court ruling or just a police or attorney general interpetation of the law.
 
that seems to be common law. Traveling sometimes is said to include such elements as " outside the daily routine" and "with provisions to stay overnight" so that somebody who regularly drives from waco to dallas or austin to san antonio in the course of his daily business and crosses county lines might not be traveling .

What you hear usually is that once you have arrived at a destination and interrupted your travel, the exemption is no longer there. So, a dude who has arrived at a motel would not be legal to drive across town etc.
 
Taken from the Texas DPS CHL handbook..............
CHAPTER 3
Frequently Asked Questions about Texas
Concealed Handguns

Q: Can I still carry a handgun without a permit while traveling?

A: Yes. The concealed handgun law augments existing state weapons
laws but does not replace them. The offense of unlawfully carrying a
weapon does not apply if you are traveling.


Q: If my handgun is on the seat beside me, am I still considered to be
"carrying?"

A: Yes. The statute refers to carrying a gun "on or about" your person.
Texas courts generally have considered this to include any gun within
your reach, including one stored in your glove compartment.
Click to expand...
 
Just my $.02, but my key criteria before I got my CHL was to not do anything that would lead me to any long heart-to-heart talks with law enforcement before I got said CHL, not that I do anything to encourage their scrutiny now....

Regards,
Rabbit.
 
well, the cop just drove up to me and I decided to play friendly helpful citizen.

It was a 15 second conversation then we broke off.

I was not CCW, and I do not and I did not after I heard there was maybe a BG in the area. Seemed to me that even with a CHL and my magic Valtro, it was not worth the risk.

knowing an area may be hot does not mean go get your gun, it means stay away.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top