UK: "MPs urge tough measures to curb gun crime "

[cuchulainn]

Remember to use this standard of measure, boys and girls:
If gun crime goes up after gun control, it's proof we need more gun control.
If gun crime goes down after gun control, it's proof we need more gun control.

from The Guardian

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/homeaffairs/story/0,11026,1078629,00.html

MPs urge tough measures to curb gun crime

Hugh Muir
Thursday November 6, 2003
The Guardian

Radical measures to curb gun crime and end Britain's firearms culture have been demanded by MPs, police officers and the families of victims.

A report from the all-party parliamentary group on gun crime urges the government to make more armed police available to confront the threat from criminals with guns.

MPs also call for tougher anti-gun laws, including legislation to outlaw the manufacture, sale or importation of replica guns, and tougher rules on the use of airguns.

They express deep concern at the ready availability of replicas which are being converted to fire real ammunition.

The parliamentary group also demands better policing, with more coordination and intelligence sharing between police forces and bodies such as Customs and Excise.

They warn that there is often "more communication between the gangs in different cities than the police".

The MPs also call for an overhaul of witness protection procedures to prevent criminals going unpunished because frightened communities refuse to give evidence against them.

The committee firmly reject the option of routinely arming police.

Diane Abbott, MP for Hackney North, the chairwoman of the inquiry, said: "I represent a constituency where every weekend there is a gun crime incident. That means ordinary people live in fear. It is destroying the fabric of the community."

Simon Hughes, vice-chairman, said: "We will not accept the rule of the gun. The message needs to go out that those who carry and use guns will be on the receiving end of very tough sentences."

According to Home Office figures, gun crime rose 35% in the year 2001/2 although some areas, such as London, saw a reduction last year.

Detective Chief Superintendent Jon Coles of the Metropolitan police told MPs the police were forced to confront the gun use of not only professional criminals but also those involved in "disorganised" crime.

In London 70% of the weapons seized are converted replicas, carried by young criminals who drift into the world of drugdealing "through poor education, lack of job opportunity and a desire to meet certain aspirations".

Mr Coles calls for police forces to share more compatible databases and urges a ban not just on replica firearms but on "all air weapons" as well.

In its submission, the Police Federation blames the use of firearms on drugs and social factors but also a glamorising of gun culture. It calls for a public debate on whether material which glamorises gun use should be censored.

The Home Office minister Caroline Flint said the government was planning a five-year minimum sentence for possession of an illegal firearm.

Armed with a plan

The main recommendations:

· More armed officers but no universal arming of police. Officers involved in shooting controversies to be quickly returned to duty

· Witness protection schemes to be extended to gun victims

· Review police informant system

· Doctors to follow General Medical Council guidelines and report gunshot incidents

· Ban manufacture, sale, transfer and importation of imitation weapons

· Make minimum age for possession of air guns 17. Tougher penalties for misuse

· Stricter regulation of deactivation of weapons

· Customs to prioritise fight against the importation of illegal weapons

· Closer cooperation between police and intelligence services

· Government to do more to help foreign countries stem flow of illicit guns

· Tighter controls of UK arms dealers who operate abroad

© Guardian Newspapers Limited 2003

 

[Hkmp5sd]

In London 70% of the weapons seized are converted replicas, carried by young criminals who drift into the world of drugdealing "through poor education, lack of job opportunity and a desire to meet certain aspirations".

If they'd just ban drugs, these young criminals wouldn't need to carry replica guns.

 

[mercedesrules]

If they'd just ban drugs, these young criminals wouldn't need to carry replica guns.

You're joking, right?

 

[Gordon Fink]

The solution is really very simple. The law should require that all British subjects have their thumbs surgically removed at birth. This way, no one would be capable of even holding a firearm. Upon reaching adulthood, subjects could apply for permits to attach prosthetic digits. Of course, they would have to show need for the digits, pass a criminal background check, receive thumb-use training, and pay a small administration fee.

Parliament should do it for the children.

~G. Fink

 

[TheEgg]

Once you start down the road of prohibition, rather than address behavior, there is no end in site.

It calls for a public debate on whether material which glamorises gun use should be censored.

Freedom of speech appears to be next -- what then?

 

[WR Olsen]

Quote:

The solution is really very simple. The law should require that all British subjects have their thumbs surgically removed at birth. This way, no one would be capable of even holding a firearm. Upon reaching adulthood, subjects could apply for permits to attach prosthetic digits. Of course, they would have to show need for the digits, pass a criminal background check, receive thumb-use training, and pay a small administration fee.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

During the 100 Year Wars the French would routinely cut off the first two fingers of the right hand of any archer they captured. This was supposed to ruin them from any future use of the long bow. They still lost all the important battles.

 

[Mk VII]

here's another article from the Guardianistas, admittedly dating back to May:-


" The desk sergeant at Hackney police station is having a few days off. He has just had the most stressful month of his life - every day during the month-long gun amnesty he would look up from his paperwork to see hardened criminals striding through the front door brandishing automatic submachine guns.
"Excuse me?" they would shout, waving their Kalashnikov at an apparently empty desk. "Oi mate, I can see you; it's no good crouching down there with a computer cover on your head."
And the quivering sergeant would then stand up slowly with his hands in the air having handed over his wallet and the keys to all the cells.
"No - I've come to hand my gun in - to put it in safe hands."
And then various by-standers would say: "So why are you giving it to the police then?"
The Home Office's gun amnesty ended this week with over 20,000 weapons handed in at police stations. There were old shotguns, antique duelling pistols and a 1970s Johnny Seven toy gun with original plastic white bullets recovered from under the piano. However, much to the government's disappointment, at no time did an Iraqi man with a moustache wander in and hand over a few weapons of mass destruction that he'd forgotten were still lying around in his attic.
It seems a bit unfair that criminals have been called to put their weapons permanently beyond use with no concessions whatsoever from the other side. Shouldn't the police be made to change their name or something? What about a truncheon amnesty? Or a promise to attempt to recruit more officers from the criminal community (no, on second thoughts there are quite enough already). The reality is, of course, that the weapons handed in were not from gangland killers but from law-abiding citizens who were getting increasingly uneasy about having grandad's second world war revolver rattling around the kitchen drawer with garden twine and old Allen keys from Ikea.
Any idea that Interpol's most wanted villains were going to walk voluntarily into police stations was perhaps a little naive. "Excuse me, I was the mystery second gunman in the Kennedy assassination and I've been meaning to get rid of this vital clue for ages, so I thought 'where better than Scotland Yard'?"
"Right, many thanks sir, just pop it there next to Abu Nidal's rocket launcher."
"Um, that CCTV camera is definitely switched off, is it?"
"Oh yes, we're not at all interested in the fact that you happen to be a professional hit man in the pay of organised crime. As long as we've got this old gun. Mind how you go now."
Apparently drug dealers and gangsters were struggling to imagine such a scenario. That's not to say that the gun amnesty was not worth doing: every gun taken out of circulation makes this country a safer place. Of all the bills passed by this government, the ban on handguns was surely one of the most sensible and right.
Having to choose between the risk of another Dunblane and a few sportsmen losing their pastime; there is simply no argument. And yet former handgun owners are still moaning that their human rights have been infringed. Why don't they just get another hobby? Take up macrame or making amusing novelty paperweights by sticking swivelling eyes on shiny pebbles or something? Gun ownership is simply not worth the risk; fatal shootings committed by Americans are now higher than ever (particularly when unarmed Iraqi demonstrators happen to be in the vicinity).
The gun amnesty has been such a success that they are thinking of repeating the exercise with other dangerous objects. Hospital casualty departments are pressing hard for a "power tools amnesty". Husbands given electric saws, high-speed drills and nail guns for Christmas and who are too scared to even get them out of the packaging would be able to hand them in anonymously, without risk of embarrassment.
In the meantime the government is left with the problem of what to do with thousands of knackered old revolvers and shotguns, so look out for a junior minister of trade explaining that we only export such arms to third world dictatorships who intend to use the weapons for peaceful purposes. Perhaps the firearms should be melted down to make a statue for the "Lefty-Council Peace Garden".
When it was discussed in cabinet it transpired that many of the guns are rusted up or jammed. "Perfect," said the minister of defence, "Then why don't we just issue them to Britain's front line soldiers?" "

http://www.guardian.co.uk/gun/Story/0,2763,947910,00.html

 

[agricola]

Mk VII,

thats funny because there is no "desk sergeant" at Hackney Police station and the cells there havent been used since 2000

 

[GM7RQK]

Of all the bills passed by this government, the ban on handguns was surely one of the most sensible and right.

Hmmm sacasm? or don't they realise that gun crime has increased many times since the 'handgun ban'.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

You're joking, right?

Yep. Since they have already banned drugs and real guns, they might as well ban toy guns. Same result. Those that want them will have them.

 

[Mr. Bombastic]

The committee firmly reject the option of routinely arming police.

More armed officers but no universal arming of police.

This is utter crap. Police are routinely and universaly armed with at least metal batons and CS gas sprays (which are classed as firearms here).

If us subjects did the same, we'd be under arrest for carrying offensive weapons (because defensive weapons are only for the stormtroopers).

 

[agricola]

you rebel scum

 

[Standing Wolf]

According to Home Office figures, gun crime rose 35% in the year 2001/2...

I'm sure the actual number is much greater than 35%.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

It looks like it would be embarrassing for a nation to have a "Toy Guns Used in Crimes" category in their criminal justice statistics.

 

[P95Carry]

The niévity of these politico's never fails to amaze me. It's now 6 years since the handgun ban hit the legitimate shooters .... and there is more problem over gun crimes than ever. Not to mention that the average Joe is defenceless ...... and is meant to be, in the eyes of the law.

Replicas, pellet guns .... oh come on .... what will be left then? Oh I forgot .. shotguns and rifles ... amazed they ain't gone yet.

And that is all gonna SOLVE the problem eh ...... give it a year and then see what other banned items can be re-banned .... how many more restrictions and constraints can be dreamed up.

''Tougher Laws''????????? get real .... use the old ones and use em properly .... no more are needed.

Oh hell ... it's all ........ :banghead: :banghead:

 

[CleverNickname]

The niévity of these politico's never fails to amaze me.

I have a feeling quite a few of these politicians know exactly what they're doing won't have any appreciable affect on crime. They're just pandering to the voters. What amazes me is the naiveté of the voters that keep electing them.