Unburned powder - suggestions?

[BrokenWheel]

Trying to work up a load using Accurate 5744 in a S&W 500 magnum.
Brass is Starline and the primers are CCI large rifle.

Regardless of the amount of the powder charge, I have a decent amount of unburned powder falling out from the casings... Is this something thats normal to 5744, otherwise i've never had this happen to me before..

 

[Walkalong]

I have tried 5744 in .357 mag. I had to completely fill the case before I got rid of 98/99% of the unburned pieces. It could not get up to enough pressure to burn completely. I tried mag primers, but accuracy suffered and it did not burn any better.

I see 5744 data in .460 in Accurate's 3.3 PDF, but no .500 data.

5744 was designed as a bulky rifle powder for reduced rifle loads. It can have some pistol application though, simply because of its burn rate.

 

[BrokenWheel]

Hmm interesting-

I just downloaded the pdf and it lists weights in the 500 mag from 32 to 42.5 grains.

 

[Walkalong]

Duh, I did not scroll down enough.

How much powder have you tried?

 

[padd54]

I just ran QUICK LOAD for 500S&W, 8"brl and 350g xtp. It shows a 91% burn with 52g of A5744.

 

[Walkalong]

I was shooting 16 Grs of 5744 with a 125 Gr JHP, and 15 Grs with a 158 Gr Plated bullet in .357 cases. (100% load density) Still had some unburned powder.

Try this at your own risk. There is no data out there as far as I know.

 

[BrokenWheel]

Duh, I did not scroll down enough.

How much powder have you tried?

I started at 29 grains and moved up to 35 grains. I dont have a chrono so all I can do is assume speed (I know thats bad), but I figure at 29 grains the 370 grain bullet must be going at about 900-1000 fps, 32 grains 1200 fps (published) and 38.3 grains 1,430 fps (published)
Just working my way up.

 

[Strongbad]

Try magnum primers and work up again. H-110 does the same thing. FWIW you could probably do better, velocity wise with a different power. My 500 likes Lil Gun and AA9 as far as accuracy goes. The AA9 is a bit slower than the Lilgun, but it's very accurate.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I agree, try using a Magnum primer and you will probably get a better burn with 5744. Changing powders will also help and you probably won't need a Magnum primer with a slower powder. (considering you're using a pistol powder with a LR primer) Like said above 5744 isn't the best choice of powders, not even close IMO. H110/W296 or 4227 will probably give you better results.

 

[BrokenWheel]

I emailed Alliant and got the following response

"...If you are loading for reduced recoil, the un-burnt powder will be inevitable and there is not much one can do about it.
It will not affect the accuracy or consistency (STD deviations) at all.
As you increase the load to higher-pressure levels, the un-burnt powder will become less. Using Magnum primers will NOT burn the powder any more efficiently..."


Arch - I would love to try H110 but AFAIK there is no data for that powder that yields bullet speeds of less than 1400 fps. I choose AA5744 because of the spread of speeds that it allows me to try (900fps all the way to 1500).

 

[Mr.Revolverguy]

I have loaded a few rounds with titegroup to give it a try for reduced loads. It worked perfectly for what I was after.

Titegroup can give you loads from 1000fps to 1480fps.

 

[Walkalong]

If I wanted to get 900 FPS with the .500 S&W, I would not use the typical slow powders used to get magnum velocities in .357, .41, 44, & 500 Mag. I would try some midrange powders, like Unique, N340 Universal, or True Blue. Experienced handloaders should have no trouble working up a nice load with one of them. Unique would probably be my first test. AA #9, while considered a mag powder, downloads really well. It would be worth trying as well.

 

[Walkalong]

Forgot the most obvious...Trail Boss should work well, even if you needed to switch to lead for your light loads.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Arch - I would love to try H110 but AFAIK there is no data for that powder that yields bullet speeds of less than 1400 fps. I choose AA5744 because of the spread of speeds that it allows me to try (900fps all the way to 1500).

I didn't realize you were looking for a .500 Special load. You can probably achieve that using a faster powder than what's normally used in a Magnum round. (like said above)

 

[Strongbad]

FWIW, I think Alliants response is a bunch of hooey. With the different burn/brissance characteristics of the mag primers, I think you'd see a distinct difference in how much unburned powder was left.

 

[navyretired 1]

Powder left in case, barrel, etc. sounds like you need a slightly faster powder with a good crimp. I used to have the same problem with 2400 and 44 Mag.. I cured it with a very tight crimp which damaged brass, so I went to faster powder wallah!! no unburned powder.

 

[joneb]

Powder left in case, barrel, etc. sounds like you need a slightly faster powder with a good crimp. I used to have the same problem with 2400 and 44 Mag.. I cured it with a very tight crimp which damaged brass, so I went to faster powder wallah!! no unburned powder.

I agree.
+ or try a heavier bullet.

 

[BrokenWheel]

Interesting- I never thought of modifying the business end to allow for a longer burn time. I'll try heavier bullets and magnum primers.

(I fail miserably with crimps. Despite videos and books some SW 500 cartridges crimp well and others dont. I have NO idea why...)

 

[Walkalong]

FWIW, I think Alliants response is a bunch of hooey. With the different burn/brissance characteristics of the mag primers, I think you'd see a distinct difference in how much unburned powder was left.

As I posted earlier, it did not make any difference with the same powder (5744) when I tried it in .357, with both 125 & 158 Gr bullets, so I would tend to believe them.

 

[joneb]

I fail miserably with crimps.

Do you trim your brass ?

 

[fourdollarbill]

My re-loader friend/mentor answered the unburned powder question for me a long time ago. His answer was to get over it and just try for close. Maybe it is wrong but it gave me a better sense of what you can and cannot do and when to stop.

 

[Strongbad]

For me, crimping is a "by feel" operation. In the early days I buckeled some cases. Now days, I don't have any problems. I also seat and crimp in a separate operation. That way I don't have to worry about minute differences in case length causing me a problem. I'll get all the rounds seated where I want them, then back the seater plug out and screw the die down far enough to allow for crimping when the ram as at the bottom of the stroke, plus a little more, then get to crimping. It takes some practice but you'll feel the hint of give in the handle when the case mouth rolls over. Haven't had any problems with it in ages, just takes some getting used to.

 

[fireman 9731]

I would try a heavier crimp before switching powders...

I had the same problems in my 45-70 with several different powders. The heavier crimp put a quick end to that.