Unburnt powder

[vaalpens]

I have seen some unburnt powder (golden flakes) in my gun when cleaning it after shooting my own reloads and I have also seen it shooting 9mm Winchester White Box.

My question is just a general question.

When you see unburnt powder, is it a result of just an under powdered load, under pressured load (COL), not enough crimp, something to do with the barrel length, or something else?

I know it is maybe a question that is to general, but I am just trying to understand what variables come in to play when you have unburnt powder.

Thanks again in advance for any comments to this question.

 

[rcmodel]

Maybe not unburned powder at all.

Golden flakes, or ash colored flakes are generally just skeleton ash left from the burned powder flakes that didn't get pulverized into smoke when fired.

Nothing to worry about.

It can be a low pressure sign to, but the big tip-off there is sooty black cases caused by the low pressure not expanding the case enough to seal the chamber.

rc

 

[jerkface11]

Unburned powder is a sign that the pressure wasn't high enough.

 

[vaalpens]

Maybe not unburned powder at all.

Golden flakes, or ash colored flakes are generally just skeleton ash left from the burned powder flakes that didn't get pulverized into smoke when fired.

Nothing to worry about.

It can be a low pressure sign to, but the big tip-off there is sooty black cases caused by the low pressure not expanding the case enough to seal the chamber.

rc

rcmodel, thanks for the reply. I have seen this mostly when shooting my 9mm, and maybe one or two flakes when shooting my 40S&W. So if it is not unburnt powder,is it then specific to a type of powder that is being used, or something else?

There was not much sooty black even though I know the powder charge was low since it felt like bunny farts an and my POI was high. I am starting to plan my next load so I am just trying to figure out which signs I need to look at and how I need to interpret them.

 

[vaalpens]

Unburned powder is a sign that the pressure wasn't high enough.

jerkface11, thanks for the reply. So if the pressure isn't high enough, do you just throw more powder at it (throw more money at it like the government), or do you play wit the COL a bit to get the pressure up?

 

[jerkface11]

Keep in mind that some powders will never fully burn in some cartridges. That said I only adjust over all length to get reliable feeding and accuracy.

 

[edfardos]

Gather a few flakes up and put a match to them if unsure. For small values of 'few'.

Slower powders (often towards the bottom of reloading tables) typically need to be loaded at or near max pressure for complete combustion. All other comments in this thread are also correct.

I had trouble with bluedot, hs6, and aa#5 in this regard. Lots of unburned powder will cause jams in tight chambers.



Edfardos

 

[vaalpens]

Keep in mind that some powders will never fully burn in some cartridges. That said I only adjust over all length to get reliable feeding and accuracy.

jerkface11, I have the reliable feeding, just need to work on the POI a bit. I am at the starting powder range, so I will bring the COL down a bit and see what I get. Thanks again for the comments.

 

[vaalpens]

Gather a few flakes up and put a match to them if unsure. For small values of 'few'.

Slower powders (often towards the bottom of reloading tables) typically need to be loaded at or near max pressure for complete combustion. All other comments in this thread are also correct.

I had trouble with bluedot, hs6, and aa#5 in this regard. Lots of unburned powder will cause jams in tight chambers.



Edfardos

edfardos, thanks! Next time I will give it a try. The golden flake obviously does not look like the original powder, so it has been transformed into something else. It is probably the skeleton ash rcmodel mentioned, but I will put a match to it and see what I get.

 

[Dudedog]

Bullseye and Unique are sort of known for that. Great powders otherwise.

Can't remember where I heard it but Bullseye = Flaming dirt.

If it is unburnt powder usually a slightly heavier charge will clean it up.

I like both of those powders but neither has a reputation for being clean.
Alliant's little reloading pamphlet says "New" 50% cleaner buring Unique, that means the old Unique was TWICE as dirty.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

jerkface11, I have the reliable feeding, just need to work on the POI a bit. I am at the starting powder range, so I will bring the COL down a bit and see what I get. Thanks again for the comments.

You said your loads are reliable so like already said, leave the COAL alone. This is why the load data gives you a charge range, so you can increase the powder charge as needed. Since you said the ammo feels very light you should probably increase the powder charge until it feels similar to the factory ammo you have shot. This is especially true if you are using your reloads as practice ammo for you carry load.

It would help if you tell us what you are loading, which bullet and the bullet weight, the powder and powder charge you're using, the primer and the COAL you're using.

 

[rcmodel]

+1

Seating depth is not how you adjust pressure.

1. Find the OAL that passes the plunk test in YOUR guns chamber.
2. And feeds correctly.
3. Increase the powder charge within the ranges shown in your load data.
4. Until ejected cases land on top of the same pile from the factory loads you are trying to duplicate.

You simply cannot go by 'how it feels' or sounds.

Unless you are using the exact same burn rate powder used in the factory loads.

Where the gun tosses the empty brass is a good indication of power & slide velocity.

Without a chronograph thats the best, and most reliable indicator you have available to you.

rc

 

[1SOW]

RC +1

"Feel" will fool you more times than not. The 'most' reliable method is using a chrono.
A chrono doesn't give "pressures", just speeds and consistency. A lower pressure powder may generate the highest speeds.

LOTS of variables like : bullet weight, bullet type (lead, Plated, FMJ, etc.), bbl length, bbl bore diameter, powder burn rate, chamber size, even the primer "type" and brand.

Ejections do give an indication of pressure changes, but the recoil spring weight can greatly affect that distance cases are thrown.

Just saying.

 

[vaalpens]

Bullseye and Unique are sort of known for that. Great powders otherwise.

Can't remember where I heard it but Bullseye = Flaming dirt.

If it is unburnt powder usually a slightly heavier charge will clean it up.

I like both of those powders but neither has a reputation for being clean.
Alliant's little reloading pamphlet says "New" 50% cleaner buring Unique, that means the old Unique was TWICE as dirty.

Dudedog, thanks for the information. The powder I have used where I saw the golden flakes is AutoComp. I am still waiting for my order of Unique and BE to arrive so that I can also experience how dirty they are.

 

[vaalpens]

+1

Seating depth is not how you adjust pressure.

1. Find the OAL that passes the plunk test in YOUR guns chamber.
2. And feeds correctly.
3. Increase the powder charge within the ranges shown in your load data.
4. Until ejected cases land on top of the same pile from the factory loads you are trying to duplicate.

You simply cannot go by 'how it feels' or sounds.

Unless you are using the exact same burn rate powder used in the factory loads.

Where the gun tosses the empty brass is a good indication of power & slide velocity.

Without a chronograph thats the best, and most reliable indicator you have available to you.

rc

rcmodel, thanks again for spelling it out for me. Yes I understand that feel is not the way to go, but I don't have a chrono, so feel and how the brass is ejected are things I can look at.

In my case using AutoComp at the low range, the brass ejection is definitely weak. So with that fact and the feel, I know the pressure is low and it is not where I want to be. My COL is longer than the suggested COL for the load, so I am really just trying to bring the COL down to the suggested length, then work up the load again, and then maybe tweak the COL when I found a load that I like. I am lucky with my 9mm that it will accept a range of COL and still feeds correctly.

 

[vaalpens]

RC +1

"Feel" will fool you more times than not. The 'most' reliable method is using a chrono.
A chrono doesn't give "pressures", just speeds and consistency. A lower pressure powder may generate the highest speeds.

LOTS of variables like : bullet weight, bullet type (lead, Plated, FMJ, etc.), bbl length, bbl bore diameter, powder burn rate, chamber size, even the primer "type" and brand.

Ejections do give an indication of pressure changes, but the recoil spring weight can greatly affect that distance cases are thrown.

Just saying.

1SOW, thanks for the insight. I like numbers, but probably is more a logical problem solver. So the chrono is a tool I need to add at some point of time to get the complete picture. At this time I have to work without it, but is trying to understand all the variables that are involved, and how it impacts the performance. With this load the grouping was excellent, but the POI was high. That is one of those variables, which probably indicates low speed.