Unfired Round 1911.

[whughett]

Occasionally after firing my Gold Cup. Series 80, I’ll find an unfired round amongst the empties. No marks no dents just a pristine unfired round.
It’s a gun I don’t often fire, but with cold weather here and weekly shooting moving indoors I’ll be firing it bi/weekly or so.
I load five and confess I don’t often count rounds when firing.

It will also on occasion bounce a case off my forehead or chest, but most of the time it’s back and right

Can anyone explain how a round gets stripped but thrown clear instead of chambering. There’s no jamming, no stove piping no partial feed.

 

[Steve in Allentown]

You're experiencing the symptoms of an inertia feed.

What's happening is the cartridge pops out of the magazine before the slide engages it to push it out of the magazine. The next round in the magazine is engaged, pushed into the chamber by the slide and fired. You never notice a malfunction because the pistol continues to go bang when you pull the trigger.

When the slide comes to an abrupt stop at the end of its rearward travel the pistol jerks upward and back. At this point the top round in the magazine may come loose from the magazine due to the laws of inertia. The common cure for this is to put in an extra power magazine spring to keep the top round in firm contact with the feed lips. You can also simply buy new magazines from a variety of companies (Tripp, Wilson, Checkmate, etc, etc) and try them.

Empty cases bouncing off your chest or forehead is most often associated with a poorly fit extractor. Is it always the last round in the mag that bounces off you? Here's an overview of what is involved with fitting an extractor: How to Fit.

When trying to fix a malfunction you should only change one thing at a time then test fire the pistol. If you try more than one thing at a time, you won't be able to isolate what the cure was.

 

[LaneP]

I think Steve in Allentown has nailed the issue of the loose live round. As to the cases ejecting into your forehead, I had that issue when I suddenly decided it would be a "good idea" to mess around with the ejector length in my Ruger SR1911 CMD. There was nothing wrong with the stock ejector but it was at least 1/8" longer than the ejector in my Colt Series 70 full size. So I shortened it and profiled it to match my Colt. Well after doing that, at least one case in every magazine went right into the center of my forehead.

I left the range, ordered a new ejector and fitted it to match the profile of the stock Ruger ejector and have never had a problem since

 

[whughett]

Thank you Steve in Allentown. I have had the gun since the mid 80’s , many, many rounds. Time for new magazines and then some tuneup.
Harvey.

 

[Steve in Allentown]

Just a quick note about hot brass flying straight back at you.

The reason it's flying straight back is because the empty case has not cleared the ejection port in a timely enough fashion to avoid being struck by the forward edge of the ejection port as the slide comes screaming backward. It's like a line drive coming straight back at the pitcher.

Getting the empty case cleanly out of the ejection port is the responsibility of the extractor and ejector. These two parts work together and must be fit correctly. This is especially true in shorter than 5" 1911s. These short 1911s have a shorter slide stroke and use stronger recoil springs than 5" 1911s. This results in much less time available to kick the empty case out of the pistol. I will fit grossly long ejectors in these short pistols and shorten the ejector nose until a live 230gr FMJ will just barely eject. If test firing shows that I need to change the flight path of the ejected case, I will file a tiny angle on the face of the ejector nose to cause the empty case to rotate a bit more vertically so that it doesn't hit the bottom edge of the ejection port as it flys out the port.

You must pay strict attention to fitting the extractor correctly by addressing its geometry, deflection, and tension. Otherwise, you risk catching more hot brass with your teeth.

 

[Koroner]

An 80 series Colt I had flipped a bunch of cases causing several semicircular cuts on my forehead.

When people asked I just said my two year old keeps throwing his toys at me. It was easier.

 

[lysanderxiii]

The common cure for this is to put in an extra power magazine spring to keep the top round in firm contact with the feed lips. You can also simply buy new magazines from a variety of companies (Tripp, Wilson, Checkmate, etc, etc) and try them.

I would think a better cure would be to try and slow down the slide.

Square firing pin stop or a stiffer recoil spring, assuming the magazine springs are good.

 

[Slamfire]

You're experiencing the symptoms of an inertia feed.

What's happening is the cartridge pops out of the magazine before the slide engages it to push it out of the magazine. The next round in the magazine is engaged, pushed into the chamber by the slide and fired. You never notice a malfunction because the pistol continues to go bang when you pull the trigger.

When the slide comes to an abrupt stop at the end of its rearward travel the pistol jerks upward and back. At this point the top round in the magazine may come loose from the magazine due to the laws of inertia. The common cure for this is to put in an extra power magazine spring to keep the top round in firm contact with the feed lips. You can also simply buy new magazines from a variety of companies (Tripp, Wilson, Checkmate, etc, etc) and try them.

Empty cases bouncing off your chest or forehead is most often associated with a poorly fit extractor. Is it always the last round in the mag that bounces off you? Here's an overview of what is involved with fitting an extractor: How to Fit.

When trying to fix a malfunction you should only change one thing at a time then test fire the pistol. If you try more than one thing at a time, you won't be able to isolate what the cure was.

Smart!

 

[Steve in Allentown]

I would think a better cure would be to try and slow down the slide. Square firing pin stop or a stiffer recoil spring, assuming the magazine springs are good.

The "unfired round amongst the empties" is not a problem with the pistol It is a problem with the magazine.

Cases bouncing off the OP's head is a problem with the extractor and/or perhaps the ejector. Slowing the slide down will not fix this problem. Correctly fitting the existing or a new extractor is the fix.

Nevertheless, generally speaking, slowing down the slide is not a bad idea. Fitting an oversized flat bottom firing pin stop at the same time that a new extractor is fit will rob a lot of energy from the slide as it begins to move rearward. It will also prevent extractor clocking if installed correctly.

A 5" 1911 should run perfectly fine with a 16lb recoil spring and I would not put in a heavier one. I run 14lb recoil springs in 5" 1911s. Replacing the standard 23lb mainspring (hammer spring) with a two pound heavier one will slow the rearward movement of the slide much more than dropping in a 20lb recoil spring. A couple of downsides of a heavier recoil spring is that it will cause the muzzle to drop as the slide slams back into battery thus increasing the time it takes to get the front sight back on target. It will also accelerate wear on the lower barrel lugs as they strike the slide stop cross pin. It will also reduce the amount of time the magazine spring has to push the stack of cartridges back up into firm contact with the feed lips.

Watch this video to see what effect varying recoil spring weights have on a 1911:

 

[Riomouse911]

I love watching super slo-mo video of firearms operating, especially semi auto handguns. With these you can really see the engineering magic that takes place in the blink of an eye.

Thanks for posting the clip .

Stay safe.

 

[tarosean]

Shooting indoors are you sure it was your round?
Reloads or Factory ammo?
Extractor may need to be tuned for the cases smacking you I the head

 

[whughett]

Shooting indoors are you sure it was your round?
Reloads or Factory ammo?
Extractor may need to be tuned for the cases smacking you I the head

Hand loads with cast bullets, a members only gun club The son and I were the only shooters that morning. It’s happened before several times, looking back first time was about two years ago. I have just two magazines, so now that I know it’s a magazine problem I’ll keep track of which one I’m shooting with, they are numbered. Just finished loading 500 rounds so I’ll be using this piece more often.

 

[243winxb]

Post #2 great info. I have made adjustments to the magazine lips. May only take a few thousandth bending inward to keep the round from popping out.

 

[Steve in Allentown]

whughett,

Springs are available from Wolff Gunsprings.

For your application I suggest the Harrison HD-207 firing pin stop.

Extractors are available from Harrison HD-241B, EGW 10353, Cylinder & Slide CS0023B, Wilson 415-80, etc.

Suggested magazines: Wilson 500, CMC https://www.cmproducts.com/Railed-P...ound-Stainless-Black-Fluoropolymer_p_335.html, and Thunder Mountain TMC Ultimate Magazine. The Thunder Mountain mag is the smoothest feeding of those listed and a good buy at $24.45. Wilson and CMC work and have a good reputation.

 

[waterhouse]

Slight heads up, the linked Tripp magazine is for officer size 1911s.

 

[Steve in Allentown]

Slight heads up, the linked Tripp magazine is for officer size 1911s.

Thanks for catching that. I deleted it from my post.

 

[94045]

My little Sister's Shield .380 EZ did that when new. I fixed it by shimming the magazine springs (Only springs available where OEM). I guess that happens when you design a pistol to have the softest recoil and magazine springs possible.

 

[FL-NC]

As for the live "ghost round", I think it is the last round in a particular magazine. Next time you shoot, count the "bangs" on each mag you fire. You will probably discover that it is only happening with 1 magazine.