Using your carry gear to win in IDPA

Status
Not open for further replies.
C

Correia

Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
10,648
Location
SLC
I was going to post this as a response in the "what 1911 for IDPA thread" www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35448 but I figured that we had inflicted enough thread drift on it for one day.

The question is can you use your actual carry gear to win at IDPA? Some of our posters (and a very experienced one at that, who could probably whoop the pants off of me at IDPA, so I'm not naming any names Wakal :p ) think you can, but don't plan on winning with it.

I've got to disagree. I carry 2 different guns. A Stainless Springfield (full size govt.) that I carry in a belly band in IWB position with my shirt tucked in over it. (this is for a certain place that I spend about 8 or so hours dressed in "business casual" a day that has a certain rule about no guns in the workplace ;) ) And when I'm out where I can wear a concealing garment (usually just an untuckted t-shirt) I carry a Kimber/Bul poly doublestack in a Rosen pancake holster. Once in awhile if I'm just going to run out for an errand like taking the movies back, or picking up something at the grocery store, I'll just slap on a G-Code kydex paddle holster and go.

Obviously I can't use my belly band in IDPA, because I pretty much need to take my pants off to reholster it. So I use my Kimber. I have to download it by 6 rounds to be legal to compete in CDP. But when I compete I am actually using the same gear that I normally would carry. I do okay, and honestly I don't think that I'm really giving anything up to people who have guns/gear specifically for IDPA.

Now I can see the point that if I carried a compact, sub-compact, or teeny tiny gun. Don't expect to win. That is why honestly I think that we should add a BUG division.

So I guess it really depends on what you carry vs. what you like shooting with. I won't disagree that IDPA is a game, but if I was going to get into a gunfight and I could bring a friend, I sure as heck wouldn't bring somebody whose idea of practice was plinking at cans once in awhile. It is a game, but it will help you shoot better under stress, and I think it is about the best practice you can get.
 
Obviously I can't use my belly band in IDPA, because I pretty much need to take my pants off to reholster it.
Click to expand...
Now there is an idea for a stage.;)
Mind pic of newbie observing and not sure if want to get into IDPA...

When I did some IDPA, I did so to learn and to apply to real life, I used my carry gun. Used IWB and OWB, the real life way I carry, with Plain ole 1911 style , stubbby GI guide rod, plain fixed sights, 4# trigger and skateboard tape. I have really gone fancy and used the one with factory adj sights. Nope, didn't expect to win, did expect to learn and improve, had a great time...so in my mind a win-win deal for me.
 
I'd like to see a BUG gun class (but not the drop pants/reholster technique :neener: ). My club has run matches like that in the past...sort of a "if the gun fits in this itty bitty box, you may play" sort of thing.

Being difficult, I used a American Derringer in .45 Colt with full loads (reloads SUCK, but the two holes are huge and the flame is...impressive...)

My wife can't run her carry gun in IDPA...more, like Mr. C in the first post, because she carries it in a non-listed-holster (Coronado Leather 'fanny' pack)...she likes the Kel-Tec K40.

IMO, a lot of carry guns are not set up for swift reloads...which is where a lot of stages are won or lost...or precise aiming. Many have tiny magazines, Euro mag releases, vestigal sights...but are easy to carry. As Clint says, guns are supposed to be comforting not comfortable ;)




Alex
 
For some reason "all clear" just takes on different connotation with this thread...sorry Larry...you started it. ;)
But I do heed what your experince and sharing dictates.
In a fun shoot, well there is a reason why the big boys don't use P-11s. :) I did learn for the real life use of this gun.
 
Sure, if you carry a real(full size) gun. I carry a G17 strongside, mags in the same place. 1911 carried the same way. I encourage people that carry their micro Springfields and G26s to compete, they ought to know the liabilities of a gun that was captured by some head shrinkers. I'm not winning....yet, there are very good shooters around my parts, but I place rather well for an IDPA newb.
 
carry gear

Whether or not I can win with what I carry depends on the competition. I have done very well in CDP with my Kimber Pro Carry with factory ball in an IWB holster when I am the only M class shooter in the group. However, when other masters show up, I switch to my Baer out of Kydex and 165 PF loads.
 
REGARDLESS

I 'practice' at games (gunhandling, accuracy, trigger control, mental prepardedness, draw, and some other stuff).

I win --or lose-- only in real life; know what I mean?





-----------------------------------------------

"all my handguns are carry/competition handguns"
 
LIke Correia I also carry in the IWB position in front which is not allowed in IDPA. When I used to shoot IDPA I shot a P-14 and I carry a P-13. It is close enough for me that I am not concerned about the difference in guns. I also dont wear mag pouches when I carry so that would be different also.
 
I haven't shot an IDPA match for awhile, but I've had some successes shooting my carry gun (G26) exactly the way I carry it. I always shoot concealed at IDPA. I also shoot the same weight bullet at the same velocity of my carry ammo.

The only difference between being at a match and shopping at the grocery is that my bullets are hollow points and I'm not packing extra magazines. Same gun in the same place.
 
There is no gun made that would allow me to win at IDPA, so I just shoot whichever one I feel like, either the Glock 17 or 26, both of which I carry concealed, or the 1911.
 
We have some fast, accurate shooters at our club (SDPS), and I'd like to be competitive with them. It's the amount of time needed for training that gets in the way. ;) But I look at each match as a practice with carry gear, identifying each target, using cover, etc... This stuff helps keep my head on straight about what I can do & where I want to improve.

I did cheat once & use a Coonan .357 Auto, with Sparks gear, at a local match. I discovered some reloading fumbles, but had a great time with streetable equipment that isn't IDPA legal (dust cover & where does this pistol fit in the rule book?). The seven round mags were a disadvantage game wise, but each full power Magnum went exactly where I meant. That is one accurate, reliable, powerful pistol. :)
 
Once I get some night site on my gun I'll be able to hold my own. I shoot and carry a Para P12-45.

I don't have the rule book with me right now or I would look, but I think thay have a back-up gun class or div. because it had my P12 listed there and in CDP.
 
P12, there is not a BUG division. The divisions are CDP, ESP, SSP, and SSR. Every now and then a club will have a mini-match using BUG guns.
 
There is a BUG division, but it's only recognized at the club level.

pasted from the current rulebook HTML on the idpa.com website

BACK-UP GUN DIVISION
Handguns permitted in BACK-UP GUN division may be single or double action and either pistol or revolver and be of .32 auto, .380 ACP, 9x19mm, .38 Special, .357 Magnum, .40 S&W, 10mm, .45 ACP and meet the following criteria:

Pistols must have a barrel length of 3.8†or less (factory installed cone style barrels with or without a barrel bushing are permitted), revolvers a barrel length of 3†or less. Maximum (total) number of rounds that may be loaded into the handgun is five (5).
 
Thanks Braindead, I forgot about that. Need to go through by Little Green Book again.

Bad moderator! No cookie! :)
 
In terms of IDPA matches, I have won a few, and generally place reasonably well in others, shooting nothing but my carry gear (Alessi DOJ, Alessi leather mag carrier, 7 round mags, Springfield Pro model).

I do not see it as anything other than an opportunity to train and handle the gun under a bit of pressure. So "winning" IDPA matches is not important to me. I do other stuff where winning matters in the context of competition- I do IDPA (and USPSA) for fun, to test equipment, ammo, and techniques, and to generally work on gunhandling skills.

I think that if I really wanted to step it up a notch to "win" more often (as if anyone really cares or remembers who wins these things from week to week :p ) I would make a few changes:

- Kydex rig with an IDPA legal speedcut, low ride with slight offset
- IDPA legal fiber dot front sight
- Decrease trigger pull to 2.8-3.0# from current 3.75#
- 8 round mags

Oh, and dump all that stuff I learned at Gunsite about how to survive a gunfight and shoot a heck of a lot more like a gamer !

LOL :neener:
 
I have found that the equipment does not matter so much, but your approach to the stage matters immensely. A retention holster of a difficult to reach IWB may slow your draw a second or so, but aggressively using cover, carefully slicing the pie, and performing reloads when you "ought" to, not when it is most advantageous, will really kill your time. I've seen plenty of competitors who know that there are only 2 targets around a barricade, so they will push out, pistol extending past the barricade (big tactical no-no), hit the 2 targets, then move on without verifying their hits or completing the slice. Guys will shoot 3 targets, run from cover, then engage 2 others and end up running dry in the middle, when they should have done a reload from cover back when they finished off the first 3 targets. But since a tac reload is slower than a slide lock reload, the competitor likes to shoot to slide lock.
 
I shoot carry gun and holsters exclusively for IDPA. I cheet a bit on the mags. Double carrier instead of a single. From concealment whether its required or not.

I figure I wont win no matter which gear I shoot so I might as well retain some integrity WRT gear.
 
aggressively using cover, carefully slicing the pie, and performing reloads when you "ought" to, not when it is most advantageous, will really kill your time.
Click to expand...
Agreed, but good course design and tough but fair ROs go a long way.
 
I shoot IDPA-ish Polite Society matches, and generally finish above mid-pack shooting my little Glock 26 from an IWB holster.

Be nice if I could do better than that, but that's what I carry.

*shrug*

pax
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top