value of lots of old stuff

[mnhntr]

So a co worker called me asking to help with the disposal and value of some reloading and gun stuff left in a shop when his elderly neighbor died. The widow wanted this stuff gone.
I went over and found a ton of 30 carbine brass as well as some bandoleers of loaded 30 carbine on stripper clips.
there is 32 win spl brass, 30-30 brass, lots of old military 30-06 brass and some loaded, 303 Brit, .308, lots of old military .45acp and some loaded, a bunch of plastic bullets for 45acp. I found a box of 30-40 krag ammo with a receipt in it for $6.96 for the ammo. 2 boxes of 45-70 that are too corroded to use.

There are a few cigar boxes of bees wax discs, and a cigar box full of 45cal cast and lubed bullets. I need to weigh and find what grain but they are heavy so I am sure they are for a 45-70 or something close to that.

I am going to destroy the old reloads of 45acp and the primers that are from the 1950s as I don't think the are safe to use. I am not sure about the safety of the 30carbine as it has some tarnish/corrosion on them.

Any help on the value of some of this would be greatly appreciated. I am going to run the brass through the tumbler and clean and sort it before I list it in the classifieds.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

To be completely honest, that stuff wouldn't be worth anything to me. I would take it away if she wanted it gone but I sure wouldn't pay for old ammo that may not be safe and old brass that's may have gone brittle.

 

[Blue68f100]

The primers may still be good if stored properly. I have primers from the 60's and there still good.

Brass will still be usable in most cases provide no corrosion. And you cal always sell it as scrap, ~$2/lb.

 

[witchhunter]

I could use the 32 Special brass. You may be surprised, but ammo lasts a long time if kept in dry conditions.

 

[burrhead]

It's been twenty plus years ago but I've shot WWII surplus ammo and it worked fine. Primers don't go "bad" if half-way properly stored. Ammo in general holds up for many decades.

 

[kimbernut]

.30 Carbine

I still shoot 1943-1953 surplus ammo with no problem. My reloads hit to same point of aim.

 

[Slamfire]

primers that are from the 1950s as I don't think the are safe to use.

I asked an Insensitive Munitions expert about the life time of primers, and he replied that they were essentially “infinite”. I think in comparison to the lifetime of gunpowder, they might be thought of infinite, primers last decades longer than gunpowder. Unlike gunpowder, which at the end of its lifetime will blow up a gun, primers will dud out. I don’t remember just when US military ammo went non corrosive primers, but it was in the 50’s. Corrosive primers just mean you need to run a wet patch, and I mean wet in terms of water, over everything to dissolve the potassium chlorate residue. Others use different water based solvents : http://www.empirearms.com/clean.htm , or this sticky http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=6902

There are risks with old ammunition. One is whether the gunpowder inside has deteriorated to the point that it creates burn rate instability. High pressure indications after firing are positive indications of too old and unsafe ammunition. There are posts on the web from guns blown up with old ammunition, and few in the shooting community understand why.

There is almost no data on the internet because all that was ever needed to be known about gunpowder aging was determined well before WW2. However ball powders did come out at the end of WW2 and I was able to find this data showing that gunpowder at the end of its lifetime will pressure spike. I asked you remember that heat is used to accelerate the age of gunpowder, so what you are seeing is in fact because of “age”, not heat, but it took heat to age the powder quickly. The IMR is a single based and the WC is a double based ball powder.

INVESTIGATION OF THE BALLISTIC AND CHEMICAL STABILITY OF 7.62MM AMMUNITION LOADED WITH BALL AND IMR PROPELLANT
Frankfort Arsenal 1962

3. Effects of Accelerated Storage Propellant and Primer Performance

To determine the effect of accelerated isothermal storage upon propellant and primer performance, sixty cartridges from each of lots E (WC 846) and G (R 1475) were removed from 150F storage after 26 and 42 weeks, respectively. The bullets were then removed from half the cartridges of each lot and from an equal number of each lot previously stored at 70F. The propellants were then interchanged, the bullets re-inserted, and the cases recrimped. Thus, four variations of stored components were obtained with each lot.

Chamber pressures yielded by ammunition incorporating these four variations were as follows. These values represent averages of 20 firings.





Heat exponentially accelerates the deterioration of gunpowder. Shooters are unaware of this and I have read any number of times posts where people store their ammunition, or gunpowder, in the attic! As you can see in this publication and in the chart I created from their data, heat will reduce the lifetime of gunpowder from decades, to weeks.

UN manual on ammunition inspection. See section 7.3.

Surveillance and in-service proof - the United Nations http://www.un.org/disarmament/c...20-Surveillance_and_In-Service Proof(V.1).pdf




One bud of mine described estate sale ammunition that must have been loaded with flash powder. He disassembled one round, applied flame to the powder, and it basically blew up!. My recommendation with old ammunition, especially someone else’s reloads, is to pull the bullets and dump the powder. After that, assuming the case interiors are not corroded, reload the stuff. There are people who desperately need 30-40 cases.

 

[Smokey Joe]

Primers...

Mnhntr--I echo what everyone else has said about the long storage life of ammunition, and most especially primers.

With regard to .30 Carbine ammunition, when they began making it during WWII, they started right out with non-corrosive primers. So that one particular cartridge, you can plan on the primers being non-corrosive no matter how old.

Tarnish on the brass is not an issue. Corrosion, however, is--Corroded brass is probably weakened past the safety point.

Regarding the .45 acp reloads--I'd pull the bullets, dump the powder for fertilizer, resize the cases and reload the bullets with a safe amount of a known powder. If you don't reload, yourself, a reloader who does .45 acp will probably take the ammo off your hands and do this very thing.

It would appear that you have quite a bit of sorting to do. Some of what you describe is just scrap, but some is probably re-usable or tradeable. Certainly the old commercial cartridges are collectors' items, especially in the original boxes and even more so with the receipt. Get expert advice if not certain, and err on the side of caution.

 

[maxxhavoc]

If the brass is corroded, I would NOT clean it before selling it on here unless the buyer wants it done.

Tumbling old/corroded brass hides the extent/type of damage. Old tarnish and case-weakening corrosion can look very similar after tumbling. It is easier for the buyer to determine whether HE wants to use the brass or not if it is still "dirty."

If you are selling ammo from this, I would make sure to list it as "use for components only" since most of it is probably reloaded anyway. Any reloader will be able to break down the ammunition and use what they want.

With that said, let me know when you list the .30 Carbine stuff. I need more brass for this since I just started reloading for it.

 

[mnhntr]

Thank guys. I do reload so knew to pull the bad brass and put it in the recycle pile. I just tumbled what was still good and slightly tarnished. I do not feel comfortable shooting or selling others reloads so I will pull them apart. I just was not sure of the going rate for the brass and cast bullets. I also have no use for the plastic bullets and do not know what they are worth. I really would like to use the primers but do not want to load a bunch and have them bad and have to pull it all apart. Maybe I will load a few and try them.

 

[FROGO207]

^^ That's what I would do as well. If OK then go for it.

 

[Smokey Joe]

Markets...

Mnhntr--The market for metals varies day by day, and also by locality. If you have a scrap dealer (or 2) near you check with them as to prices for brass and for used lead. A price from somewhere else, more than a few days old, would be meaningless.

If you sell the cast bullets as bullets, check on ads for similar bullets and ask a little less than the manufacturer wants. If you sell the brass as reloadable, do the same. Mebbe your LGS sells brass & bullets; could give you an idea of prices. Gun shows often have dealers in brass and bullets--You could get an idea of prices from that source, and such a dealer will probably make an offer for your stuff, also (though somewhat below market value; they're a business, need to turn a profit on merchandise.)

The primers we've already covered. If you don't trust 'em, load up a number with modern components otherwise, and shoot 'em for practice. I would expect you'd get 100% bangs.

The beeswax discs you mention are intrigueing--I have NO idea what those would be used for. If/when you find out please let us know.

The old factory ammo--Find a collector. There are collectors of old ammo, and some really prize the original boxes as well.

Good luck with all of this. Please keep us posted.

 

[gamestalker]

I would seriously doubt the primers are bad. I've used primers that were 40-50 yrs. old, all went bang.

As for shooting someone else's reloads, never.

But any old military surp ammunition, provided you can be 100% certain it is surplus and not reloads, and as long as it's not corroded, I would shoot it. The worst you might experience is either poor performance or inconsistent performance, or a squib. The first time you get a squib / FTF, just tear the rest down, then sell or use the metallic components.

As for old primers, use them. As long as they are in the appropriate labeled boxes, I would bet they will all go bang. It takes more than just age to deactivate primers.

GS

 

[tightgroup tiger]

You pay what you want but "if it goes bang, if it isn't corroded, if it's good brass", practically speaking, is not worth me spending money on.
If you can get it for less than scrap price, then go for it. I don't like that many unknowns and I'm not a speculator.
You can put lipstick on a pig, it's still a pig.

Comments on the Millsurp loaded rounds, I agree with, but you still don't know how they were stored.

A lot of opinions here, use them all, make your decision, and make your best deal. But protect yourself against total lose. You can't hurt yourself with staying under scrap price.

That's my opinion.

 

[clearcut]

the bee's wax is for fluxing lead wile casting,the plastic bullets are probably for practice with primers only.
CC

 

[mnhntr]

Thanks again for the info. I have a few deals in the works on the brass.