Veterans Group Questions Who Started the Kuwait Oil Fires
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Ryder
Member
It seems strange that Iraq waited until the very last minute to torch the land rigs yet they took out the gulf rigs at the first sign of agression.
That gulf rig was a strategic position. If Iraq destroyed the gulf rig why didn't we suspect they would also destroy the land rigs and take steps to protect them?
Do you hear hear what the gov't says in condition white? Yellow? Or red?
That gulf rig was a strategic position. If Iraq destroyed the gulf rig why didn't we suspect they would also destroy the land rigs and take steps to protect them?
Do you hear hear what the gov't says in condition white? Yellow? Or red?
Zander
member
Illogical...and stunningly so.
TexasVet
Member
Did that one Gulf War vet ...
ONE Gulf War vet. Like the ONE Korean War vet who broke the massacre at No Gun Run? The one who, it turns out, wasn't even a COMBAT soldier. The one who never got within a hundred miles of the non-existant event he "eye-witnessed"?
So who is this ONE vet?
And why should we believe him over the stuff we saw live on TV when it was actually happening?
For that matter, why should we believe those who think EVERYTHING the Gov says is a lie?
Trust no one, but do your own research and remember Occam.
The simplest explanation is virtually ALWAYS the right one.
ONE Gulf War vet. Like the ONE Korean War vet who broke the massacre at No Gun Run? The one who, it turns out, wasn't even a COMBAT soldier. The one who never got within a hundred miles of the non-existant event he "eye-witnessed"?
So who is this ONE vet?
And why should we believe him over the stuff we saw live on TV when it was actually happening?
For that matter, why should we believe those who think EVERYTHING the Gov says is a lie?
Trust no one, but do your own research and remember Occam.
The simplest explanation is virtually ALWAYS the right one.
Cactus
Member
How was the US supposed to protect these oil rigs without holding the ground. Even if we knew they were going to torch them, and I recall reports of that fear, at the time we could do nothing. By the time the US forces captured the ground that contained the drill rigs, the Iraqis had already torched them!
David Park
Member
My theory
If you're a Gulf War vet currently suffering from the horrible effects of burning oil well "second-hand smoke" , there are probably a bunch of lawyers willing to take a break from their anti-tobacco/asbestos/Nutrasweet/etc. business to take your case. However, you need somebody to sue: the person who started the fires. Filing suit against Saddam is like squeezing blood from a stone, but the U.S. gov't is a much juicier target. If you merely claim (not prove) they started the fires, that's grounds for a suit, and the lawyers make money even if you don't eventually win. Sounds like a good enough reason to concoct this story to me.
If you're a Gulf War vet currently suffering from the horrible effects of burning oil well "second-hand smoke"
, there are probably a bunch of lawyers willing to take a break from their anti-tobacco/asbestos/Nutrasweet/etc. business to take your case. However, you need somebody to sue: the person who started the fires. Filing suit against Saddam is like squeezing blood from a stone, but the U.S. gov't is a much juicier target. If you merely claim (not prove) they started the fires, that's grounds for a suit, and the lawyers make money even if you don't eventually win. Sounds like a good enough reason to concoct this story to me.Malone LaVeigh
Member
Good source on the incubator and buildup-on-the-border lies:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0906/p01s02-wosc.html
More good background stuff:
http://www.independent.org/tii/content/events/f_macarth.html
Zander:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0906/p01s02-wosc.html
More good background stuff:
http://www.independent.org/tii/content/events/f_macarth.html
Zander:
In case you missed it, there was another sentence after the one you quoted. Who's illogical?
jmbg29
member
This other sentence?
So say you and a few other folk. So what? How does that make it fact?
These folks are asking people to believe that we were starting Kuwati oil fires to drum up support for a war that was practically over. You want us to take it seriously?
In the famous words of Bugs Bunny, "HaHa, HoHo, it is to laugh."
Long list, but take heart, you are near the top.
Sandi who?
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
Well considering that Tariq Aziz himself commented about Glaspie and Kuwait by saying:
"She didn't tell us anything strange. She didn't tell us in the sense that we concluded that the Americans will not retaliate. That was nonsense you see. It was nonsense to think that the Americans would not attack us. In the early hours of the 2nd of August, the whole apparatus of the leadership took precautions for an American speedy immediate retaliation."
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/gulf/oral/aziz/2.html
Now if Iraq's minister of information is willing to go on record saying that Glaspie never made such a comment, you have to ask yourself why certain groups keep wanting to perpetuate that myth.
"She didn't tell us anything strange. She didn't tell us in the sense that we concluded that the Americans will not retaliate. That was nonsense you see. It was nonsense to think that the Americans would not attack us. In the early hours of the 2nd of August, the whole apparatus of the leadership took precautions for an American speedy immediate retaliation."
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/gulf/oral/aziz/2.html
Now if Iraq's minister of information is willing to go on record saying that Glaspie never made such a comment, you have to ask yourself why certain groups keep wanting to perpetuate that myth.
Tamara
Senior Member
Malone,
Any time I hear somebody start making claims about being a "specops veteran", "attending secret briefings by shadowy figures in mufti" and going on "special special super-secret missions he can't tell you about", my BS detector goes crazy. I want unit numbers, I want dates, I want names, I want to see DD214s.
Did you know that the entire Vietnam war was fought by SEAL sniper Ranger LRRP Force Recon Green Berets? It must've been, because I've met hundreds of them and only one guy who drove a radio in the rear with the gear...
Any time I hear somebody start making claims about being a "specops veteran", "attending secret briefings by shadowy figures in mufti" and going on "special special super-secret missions he can't tell you about", my BS detector goes crazy. I want unit numbers, I want dates, I want names, I want to see DD214s.
Did you know that the entire Vietnam war was fought by SEAL sniper Ranger LRRP Force Recon Green Berets? It must've been, because I've met hundreds of them and only one guy who drove a radio in the rear with the gear...
TexasVet
Member
__________________________________________
If you're a Gulf War vet currently suffering from the horrible effects of burning oil well "second-hand smoke"
__________________________________________
Exactly, David. Another interesting point is that the hundreds of oil field firefighting specialists who spent about 6 times as long amidst the smoke and fumes than soldiers did, had exactly ZERO incidence of "Gulf War Syndrome". None. And that includes Americans, Brits, French and several other nationalities. The guys I knew in Houston who worked for Boots and Coots would laugh out loud when asked about the dangers, aside from the obvious dangers of nitro, flame and heat.
If you're a Gulf War vet currently suffering from the horrible effects of burning oil well "second-hand smoke"
__________________________________________
Exactly, David. Another interesting point is that the hundreds of oil field firefighting specialists who spent about 6 times as long amidst the smoke and fumes than soldiers did, had exactly ZERO incidence of "Gulf War Syndrome". None. And that includes Americans, Brits, French and several other nationalities. The guys I knew in Houston who worked for Boots and Coots would laugh out loud when asked about the dangers, aside from the obvious dangers of nitro, flame and heat.
Leatherneck
Member
Tamara
TC
TFL Survivor
Strangely, I've been noticing a marked increase in the number of Vietnam vets as well; and especially heroic ones.
TC
TFL Survivor
One lie does not a pack make. So a fifteen year old girl lied, and perhaps she was even coached by a PR firm. That's a shame, but one lie does not mean that a thousand attrocities were not committed or a thousand truths weren't told. Look what is going on right now. Obvious truths don't seem to have any effect on the UN. Maybe that girl (or her parents) understood the UN better than we do.
Regarding the tanks amassing on the border: Just how difficult would it be for the press to get a hold of a photo of empty desert. Sounds like the DD might have played a joke on them. "You want some classified satellite photo's...here ya go"
There is absolutely no doubt that Iraqi armoured divisions were within 100-150 miles of the Saudi border AND WERE IN KUWAIT - so what's the point?
This kinda stuff say's a lot about the anti-Government types (or at least anti- conservative Government types). I'm amazed they couldn't be a little more creative after having a dozen years to dream something up, especially considering the magnitude of the political and military operations. I'm even starting to hear stories from my leftist friend at work about Prescott Bush and his financial dealings with the Nazi's....jeeeeez, talk about clutching for straws.
Regarding the tanks amassing on the border: Just how difficult would it be for the press to get a hold of a photo of empty desert. Sounds like the DD might have played a joke on them. "You want some classified satellite photo's...here ya go"
There is absolutely no doubt that Iraqi armoured divisions were within 100-150 miles of the Saudi border AND WERE IN KUWAIT - so what's the point?
This kinda stuff say's a lot about the anti-Government types (or at least anti- conservative Government types). I'm amazed they couldn't be a little more creative after having a dozen years to dream something up, especially considering the magnitude of the political and military operations. I'm even starting to hear stories from my leftist friend at work about Prescott Bush and his financial dealings with the Nazi's....jeeeeez, talk about clutching for straws.
I can give you mine, but it was just Reserve peacetime duty. Fun stuff, though! Gettin' paid to shoot things, with no danger of anyone shooting back!
Hey Malone, I'll stick my hand high in the air here and volunteer to to be flamed:
I agree with you. The gummit lies to us. Regularly. I don't trust 'em any further than I can throw Rosie ODonnel by the eyebrows.
But this story is still laughable.
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