Walker wedge size?

[J-Bar]

Thanks to Denster and Lonesome Pigeon for responding to my question about fitting an 1851 wedge.

I am embarrassed to admit that years ago I buggered the wedge slot on this revolver, and now it is too wide to properly fit a new wedge.

It occurred to me that the wedge for a Walker or Dragoon might be bigger than the wedge for an 1851; I have never owned either of those guns, so I don't know. If so, I might be able to fit the larger wedge into the buggered slot.

So the new question: Are wedges for a Walker or Dragoon bigger (wider) than the wedge on an 1851 Navy?

Thanks for your knowledge.

 

[44 Dave]

Thanks to Denster and Lonesome Pigeon for responding to my question about fitting an 1851 wedge.

I am embarrassed to admit that years ago I buggered the wedge slot on this revolver, and now it is too wide to properly fit a new wedge.

It occurred to me that the wedge for a Walker or Dragoon might be bigger than the wedge for an 1851; I have never owned either of those guns, so I don't know. If so, I might be able to fit the larger wedge into the buggered slot.

So the new question: Are wedges for a Walker or Dragoon bigger (wider) than the wedge on an 1851 Navy?

Thanks for your knowledge.

The wedge slot can be made "adjustable" With 45 Dragoon's method of tapping an allen head screw in the arbor.

 

[Fingers McGee]

Thanks to Denster and Lonesome Pigeon for responding to my question about fitting an 1851 wedge.

I am embarrassed to admit that years ago I buggered the wedge slot on this revolver, and now it is too wide to properly fit a new wedge.

It occurred to me that the wedge for a Walker or Dragoon might be bigger than the wedge for an 1851; I have never owned either of those guns, so I don't know. If so, I might be able to fit the larger wedge into the buggered slot.

So the new question: Are wedges for a Walker or Dragoon bigger (wider) than the wedge on an 1851 Navy?

Thanks for your knowledge.

Dragoon and Walker wedges are longer, thicker and wider than an 1851/60 wedge.

Filing the bottom of the 1851/60 wedge like Denster said will thin it to fit a tight slot. Just take it slow & fit check often.

 

[J-Bar]

44 Dave:

Thanks, I will keep that solution in mind. I used Pettifogger's method of fitting brass button on the end of the arbor to correct the short arbor syndrome, so I would prefer not to do any more work on the end of the arbor. If I am going to tap and drill, I would rather do it behind the existing slots, all the way through the arbor, and just screw the barrel assembly to the arbor transversely, eliminating the wedge altogether.

Fingers:

I hogged the slots out horizontally, so even if I can get a thick wedge thinned down, it would have too much side to side slop.

I called the folks at VTI and lo and behold I am not the only person to ever do this. They said a Dragoon wedge is bigger than the 1851 Navy wedge on Ubertis (varies from manufacturer to manufacturer), so I am going to try to fit a Dragoon wedge into this thing. I'll let you know how it works.

Thanks guys for the responses.

 

[expat_alaska]

The wedge slot can be made "adjustable" with 45 Dragoon's method of tapping an allen head screw in the arbor.

What is the "wedge slot"? If you are talking about the slot in the arbor for the wedge, it is not adjustable. 45 Dragoon advises to adjust the arbor/barrel lug recess with shims in the recess, not on the arbor. That way any other barrel can be fitted to the frame/arbor in the same way without doing anything to the arbor. Piettas do not have that problem on the 1851 Navies but your pistol might. Find a suitable replica wedge and sand it to fit front and back if it does not fit as you find it. If you think that the wedge determines the proper barrel/cylinder gap your arbor does not fit the barrel lug recess properly. If you can hand fit it into place or hammer it into place, the barrel/cylinder gap will not change if the arbor is seated into the barrel lug.

Jim

 

[45 Dragoon]

Jim,
44Dave is correct. So many folks get it wrong so here it is again. I shim the hole up to meet the arbor with steel shims (washers). That takes care of the short arbor and the barrel/cyl clearance. I do it that way so I can do the next step.

Now, here's where it gets tricky . . . . . lol!! (A little teasing!) I drill and tap the end of the arbor . . . . all the way and into the . . . . wedge slot . . . ! I then install a 1/4" set screw that has had the cutting end flattened and polished. That flattened and polished surface will be the new contact surface for the wedge!! . It is in fact now an adjustable bearing surface for the wedge.

To be clear: 1- the shims fix the arbor length problem. 2- the set screw is a way to keep the wedge you have , with that particular revolver, from now on. You can adjust for wear to the wedge over the lifetime of the revolver and also, you can customize how far you want the wedge to be inserted. This helps to avoid any interference you may have with holstering the weapon ( wedges tend to snag the lip of the holster).

That's it.

Now, back to your regularly scheduled program . . .

Mike

 

[denster]

45Dragoon. Did you ever consider facing off a cone shape on the end of that set screw? We have had this discussion before about the drilling of that hole erasing the angled surface in the arbor that mates with the angle of the wedge. If you were to make the angle of that cone match the angle of the wedge you would at least have 1/8" of bearing surface mating with the wedge and it would still be adjustable. Much better than the tiny contact you are getting with a flat surface or your previous rounded end screw.

 

[45 Dragoon]

Hey denster, I haven't done any further investigation on that subject. The way I remove the cutting surface of the set screw is in the non-backed area of a belt sander. Then a padded piece of 320 grit sandpaper (backed) for surface finish (high speed gives a polished look). That process leaves a slightly domed shape (though still pretty much flat) with a "soft" edge. I haven't had any problems with that setup and depending on how much "fitting" has to be done with removing material from the end of the arbor (fine tuning for bbl/cyl clearance), very little of the screw is "proud" of the original bearing surface.
From my understanding of the physics employed by "triangulation" (which is what is used with the wedge system), three "points" offers a better locking system over two points and a surface (viewed as point size of the two points present compared to the remaining "point" or surface). A large contact surface (with respect) allows more area for vibration to interrupt the "lock" as opposed to three (more or less) equal "points”. The 1/8" contact area you present is defiantly a proper size for this application
I understand your thought and it has some merit (not being indignant here) it's just a " if it's working " thing. Heck, I got very far behind just spending time with the full coil spring action setup (but, it IS so much a better way to power the parts!!). So, I don't need another R&D "item" right now. I may look into it in the future.

Mike

 

[J-Bar]

Update:

I successfully fitted a Dragoon wedge into my 1851 Navy. I used a hand file and orbital sander to shape the wedge, and lots of trial and error fitting, marking the surfaces of the new wedge with a Sharpie pen. It’s solid now and will still fit my holsters even though the new wedge protrudes more than the old one.

So it can be done, and if I can do it anyone can!

 

[denster]

Hey denster, I haven't done any further investigation on that subject. The way I remove the cutting surface of the set screw is in the non-backed area of a belt sander. Then a padded piece of 320 grit sandpaper (backed) for surface finish (high speed gives a polished look). That process leaves a slightly domed shape (though still pretty much flat) with a "soft" edge. I haven't had any problems with that setup and depending on how much "fitting" has to be done with removing material from the end of the arbor (fine tuning for bbl/cyl clearance), very little of the screw is "proud" of the original bearing surface.
From my understanding of the physics employed by "triangulation" (which is what is used with the wedge system), three "points" offers a better locking system over two points and a surface (viewed as point size of the two points present compared to the remaining "point" or surface). A large contact surface (with respect) allows more area for vibration to interrupt the "lock" as opposed to three (more or less) equal "points”. The 1/8" contact area you present is defiantly a proper size for this application
I understand your thought and it has some merit (not being indignant here) it's just a " if it's working " thing. Heck, I got very far behind just spending time with the full coil spring action setup (but, it IS so much a better way to power the parts!!). So, I don't need another R&D "item" right now. I may look into it in the future.

Mike

Actually having more bearing surface with a wedge pack is better. If you had a small lathe or a friend that has one they could turn you up a years supply of set screws in an hour.
As to the coil spring system you get three attaboys on that one. I've used the Rugarized hand spring for years only way to go adapting coils for the trigger and bolt spring is a true wow!