Webley Revolver repair or not to repair

[Armybrat]

Saw this posted on a sports board - your thoughts, please:

Webley Revolver repair or not to repair


I mentioned to my Dad that I was planing on getting a handgun mostly for self defense, and to see if i wanted to pick up shooting as a hobby (like I need another one). He said I could have his old military surplus 45 he bought at Montgomery Wards for $19.95 when he moved to Houston in '58. I had not seen the gun since I was very young and had visions of a sweet old 1911 dancing in my head when he comes out and hands me a 1915 Webley Mark VI .445 cut for .45 ACP that has the name of a Seargent-Major in the Royal Field Artillery engraved in it. It was definitely used in WWI and probably WWII. I thank him profusely, but recognize immediately that this isn't a self defense gun, but a cool old piece of history that maybe i could shoot a couple times just to say I did.

I knew there was a problem when i cocked it and the cylinder rotating about a quarter inch side to side. Later after partly cleaning 50+ years of who knows what I noticed that where the top of the trigger engages the cylinder when cocked back for SA, the metal was mashed to one side. I thought it was from abuse and found a replacement trigger from apexgunparts. The barrel bracket for the top break was scratched up, so I got that as well. When the trigger came in I tore the revolver apart, and when I got the old trigger out I noticed that it wasn't just mashed to one side, it had been ground. I thought that was curious, but continued my reassembly. The barrel bracket and trigger were a lot tighter than before. Once it was complete I noticed that there was still some side to side movement, but it was less than a 1/16" now. That was better but not what I expected. I am no gun expert, so I don't know if that would still be safe operation, and it seems to be made that way.

In the back of my mind the fact that the trigger was ground kept gnawing at me, so I put a 3/8 rod down the barrel and it hit the cylinder on one side when the cylinder was locked up no matter which way I rotated it. That is when I realized the top of the trigger had been ground just so the cylinder would line up with the barrel. Now I am thinking that the frame is bent.

These guns converted to .45 ACP are only worth about $500, and certainly less in this condition, so I am wondering if it is worth trying to have it repaired, or even if repair is possible. Any advice?

It doesn't have any sentimental value to either my Dad or I, but just the same I think I will hold onto it for a while, and maybe sell it to a war memorabilia collector down the road. In the mean time I have come to like the idea of shooting a .45 ACP revolver that uses full moon clips and am thinking about looking for a S&W Model 25-2.

 

[Lucky Derby]

Sounds to me like a really cool paperweight.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

Here's the skinny on the old Webleys like yours. Many were cut/rechambered to accomodate the more available .45ACP rounds, rather than rely on scarce .455 rounds, when the guns were imported back in the 1960's. Unfortunately, it was not widely known that full powered .45ACP operated at much higher pressures than the .455, and the Webleys had notably softer steels than we use today, and wear and stretching are quite prevalent in these revolvers if they have seen a lot of use with .45ACP (as I suspect yours has). I had one that had seen little use, but had also been converted like yours, and it seemed to have a lot of play in the cylinder lockup when cocked, but locked up very tight when the hammer dropped. In mine, the alignment of the cylinder and barrel while "hammer/down/locked" was right on, and a rod going down the barrel didn't hit the chamber face at all. Yours may be beyond a reasonable (inexpensive) fix. You could sell it "as is", take the money, throw in some more, and find a better, "shootable" example. Without a hard look at yours, I am just guessing on the side of safety that you might need a better, safer gun to shoot. On a side note, I took to loading down my ammunition in .45 Auto Rim cases, and running my 230gr lead bullets at 600-700 fps. It was still a great gun to shoot, and a would still hurt a bad guy plenty if it I had had to use it as a defensive weapon.

 

[cougar1717]

It may be worth taking it to a gunsmith and asking for a quote. Worst case scenario is that its unshootable as is and too expensive to fix. It could sit in a curio cabinet on display or be worth something to a collector.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Definitely have it vetted by a good gunsmith before firing.

Webley IV was introduced in BP days and my .455 Webley IV has first and second BP proof marks but was cut for .45 AutoRim/.45 ACP with moon clips by the importer. I hesitate to shoot it with smokeless, but do reload BP, Pyrodex and Triple7. The .45 ACP casings I discard after firing. The .45 AutoRim casings are pain to resize after firing and get retired after two or three reloads.

The Mark V and Mark VI were proofed for nitro powder and/or cordite. But still, .45 ACP on paper has a higher pressure, although a .451 to .452 bullet in a .454 diameter barrel is not going give full power or very good accuracy.

Too bad the importers did not leave them in .455 Webley.