Well regulated militia

[berettashotgun]

This sounds bad, but who/what/where is regulated militia?
While I set here on Presidents Day and get irritated over this head cold, I was/am thinking about all the threads that speak of "regulated" militia, heck- the word regulated is freely thrown about like confetti; yet if a terrorist act was to come about on a citywide scale in say, OKC, how would anyone in the "militia" communicate? Communication IS paramount to success.
Assuming the cell towers are locked out, what does everyone resort to -midland or cobra walkie-talkies to stay in touch?
Does everyone resort to "guerrilla tactics"- who are the BG's?
How would you know? I don't recall my children having this knowledge at birth or anyone else for that matter. Does everyone just play it by ear- fly by the seat of their pants?
Very curious on the general consensus of everyone.
Everyone who is taught the same GENERALLY reacts/performs in the same prescribed manner- usually. That would seem detrimental to overall success against a medium scale disruption of services in a medium large city.

 

[shield20]

Unfortunately, the well-regulated militia which held such an importance for our framers has been obsoleted. While intended at our founding to be all able bodied male citizens of certain ages, well-armed and well-trained in military evolutions, it has been virtually legislated out of existence. There is a definition for "organized militia" - the National Guard, and the "unorganized militia" - eveyone else, in federal statutes, but only the former has further provisions in place for being called out (see John Warner Act 2006 for latest version, which removed "militia" from the applicable section 333).

Note that the National Guard circa 1903 is a FEDERAL entity, and not the militia as intended by the framers, which has been all but ignored even though the constitution states congress is to provide for calling forth the Militia and to provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the Militia.

There are still some state provisions for true citizen militias, also refered to as "State Defense Forces" - miliage may very depending on your state. Basically, unless you are part of a local organization such as this - you are on your own. Thrilling isn't it?

 

[Sistema1927]

"Regulated" in the 18th Century context, means that it is capable of performing its function, as in a "regulated watch" that is able to properly keep time.

As far as the Founding Fathers were concerned, a "well regulated" militia was the body of free citizens having the arms and ammunition necessary to protect their homes, cities, states, and nation. Any attempts to disarm the populace tend to break that "regulation".

 

[Dr. Dickie]

My understanding is:
The idea behind the well-regulated militia was that men of a town, city, or state would band together to defend that town, city or state (whether from outside invaders, or internal miscreants--including a run-away Fed). As such, these were every day citizens, who when circumstances demanded could be counted on to take up arms and defend their state (remember, the United States was supposed to be just that, a collection of States that were united--with emphasis on the States).
Since they were not full time soldiers (the founding fathers took steps against a standing army, only a standing navy), they need to be competent in firearms and their use (and generally they had to have their own firearms to bring to the conflict). Therefore, "well-regulated" meant that folks needed to be generally competent with firearms (physical training was not quite as much needed early in this nation as most were fit enough) and familiar with military tactics and such.
As shield20 has said, the concept of the militia has been more or less legislated out of existence; however, the purpose behind the amendment has not gone away; although state identity has been diminished with the growing Fed.

 

[TacMedic4450]

http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.pdf

Has some great historical info on the militia and what our founding fathers thought that it was.

 

[Robo_Railer]

Quoting from page one of the PDF cited above:
"The Second Amendment secures a right of individuals generally, not a right of States or a right restricted to persons serving in militias."
Yessssssssss!!!

But like the FBI report that said criminals generally ignore gun laws, it has been/will be largely ignored.
Oh, well. At least now I've got a copy of it, to pull choice quotes from if anyone in my area writes any silly letters to the local paper. In fact, I might just write something anyway, and get in the first "shot."
Thanks for the link.

 

[DougW]

I train to be well regulated, in the origional definition of the term. A well regulated clock will be precise in keeping time, and will be well maintained, oiled, and serviced. Above all, it will be constantly in an operational state.

 

[rangerruck]

also , it is impossible to have a militia, or a regulated militia, but suddenly, if the govt. allows you to have weapons, and thereby gives them to you, you will somehow magically transform, into a 'well regulated' militia. Also George mason and the Webster boys, defined militia(as in Webster's Dictionary) to mean all able bodied males over 15 , but under 55, IIRW.

 

[MrDig]

Well regulated means Bran Flakes for Breakfast.
Other than that I have no definition.

 

[Robo_Railer]

Also George mason and the Webster boys, defined militia(as in Webster's Dictionary) to mean all able bodied males over 15 , but under 55, IIRW.

Mason's reply was supposedly "Who are the Militia? They consist now of the whole people, except for a few public officers." (See History of the U.S. Militia.)
Then we have Title 10 USC §311, which says "all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard." (32 USC 313 is about the National Guard.) I thought there was at one time a provision for veterans of active duty to be included past age 45, but I can't find it.
The mention of "unorganized militia" in §311(b)(2) got me laughing, thinking of something my old shooting buddy in MA came up with. He and I were going to establish the MDM, the Massachusetts Disorganized Militia. One distinguished unit was going to be the 1st Regiment of Small Four-Wheel-Drive Pickup Trucks. Kinda like the Rat Patrol of the North Shore, but in Nissans. "Take that, Mr. BMW!"

 

[berettashotgun]

TacMedic4450~ Good job. That really gives me some "insight" and I really appreciate the link. cool.
But I am still in the dark about talking with each other, at the least- being semi informed about what is going on around me.
I KNOW what steps me and the wife would take, and have a short/med/long term plan thought out & in place; but in the event of a local long term action I can't see any other steps worthy to actually help the situation. Waiting for the calvary just ain't my style.

 

[LaEscopeta]

"Regulated" in the 18th Century context, means that it is capable of performing its function, as in a "regulated watch" that is able to properly keep time.

A well regulated clock will be precise in keeping time, and will be well maintained, oiled, and serviced. Above all, it will be constantly in an operational state.

Well, sort of but not quite.

From the PRO-gun site http://www.guncite.com/gc2ndmea.html:

The Random House College Dictionary (1980) gives four definitions for the word "regulate," which were all in use during the Colonial period and one more definition dating from 1690 (Oxford English Dictionary, 2nd Edition, 1989). They are:
1) To control or direct by a rule, principle, method, etc.
2) To adjust to some standard or requirement as for amount, degree, etc.
3) To adjust so as to ensure accuracy of operation.
4) To put in good order.
[obsolete sense] b. Of troops: Properly disciplined. Obs. rare-1.

Before there were "regulated watches" the un-regulated ones would run faster when their springs were wound tight, and slow as the spring wound down. The "regulated watch" has mechanisms that adjust for the changing strength on the spring at run the same through out the wind-down cycle. Regulated in this case follows definition 3 above.

The same site http://www.guncite.com/gc2ndmea.html agues (I think successfully) that the 1786 definition of well-regulated the Founding Fathers meant when writing the 2cd amendment was number 4 above:

The quoted passages support the idea that a well-regulated militia was synonymous with one that was thoroughly trained and disciplined, and as a result, well-functioning. That description fits most closely with the "to put in good order" definition supplied by the Random House dictionary. The Oxford dictionary's definition also appears to fit if one considers discipline in a military context to include or imply well-trained.

Also, definition of well-regulated was discussed here:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=250903&highlight=Regulated

 

[shield20]

I don't think he is looking for definitions - he wants to know how a "militia" would work in time of a real emergency.

Find out what your state offers, if anything. The fed govt stopped investing in us people a long time ago. Have a radio, some friends/family, a plan or 2, alot of ammo and a few good guns, and figure for the most part you will be on your own.

Did you ever see new clips of the crowds shopping the day after Thanksgiving?...all that trampling just for a few cheaper prices on a TV?

Think War of the Worlds (the new one with Tom Cruise), and you will get an idea what you will be up against.

 

[nibb]

The current government has fear of a civil militia. Because the politicians abuse of their power and want to have full control of the population. The militia would allow to have them freedom if the government is abusing of the people. So the militia is a threat to the government of abusers which their main goal is to have full control of the people and make then eventually slaves.
Why do you think there is gun control?
A tyran is nothing with his military and police forces and the whole population raises and their all are armed.
People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both

 

[DougW]

I still contend that the key word is "regulated". It does not mean "controlled" in the context or the use of the term in the late 1700's. My Grand Father was a watch maker, and he told me of clocks from the 1600's that kept perfect time, and were regulated for that efficency. Random House definition may be technically accurate, but I still hold that regulated in the terms of the Constitution is closer to the #3 definition that the #1. Remember, the Constitution was about individual rights, not the rights of a group.