what gauge shotgun
- Thread starter jroyer
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Moosberg 500 12 gauge can be had for $200.
earlthegoat2
Member
12 gauges are virtually everywhere and the used selection is unlimited. There will be more variations and price ranges in the used department than on the new rack even. If your thinking of keeping the price down then you have to go for the 12 gauge. Subgauges invariably cost more. I myself prefer the 20 ga even for home defense purposes but there is nothing wrong with the 12 it seems to have at least a little bit of a following in the combat arena.
Fred Fuller
Moderator Emeritus
Hi, jroyer, and welcome to THR.
Would this be your first shotgun, or have you owned scatterguns before? A little more information about you, your circumstances, other potential uses for the shotgun, etc. would help us make more useful suggestions...
If you plan on using the gun for purely defensive purposes, either a 20 gauge or a 12 gauge would work about equally well. As to make and model, that comes down to personal preference- any of the major manufacturer's products should work fine. Best thing to do is to handle several makes/models as circumstances permit, and if you can, get some trigger time on different guns before you spend your money.
If budget limitations are an issue, then you'll more likely want to go with a pumpgun- they tend to be less expensive. I would suggest you stick with a repeater from a reputable manufacturer, rather than getting a single shot or double barrel.
For a good number of people, the youth model guns in 20 gauge from Remington, Mossberg or Winchester work well for defensive purposes right out of the box.
hth,
lpl
Would this be your first shotgun, or have you owned scatterguns before? A little more information about you, your circumstances, other potential uses for the shotgun, etc. would help us make more useful suggestions...
If you plan on using the gun for purely defensive purposes, either a 20 gauge or a 12 gauge would work about equally well. As to make and model, that comes down to personal preference- any of the major manufacturer's products should work fine. Best thing to do is to handle several makes/models as circumstances permit, and if you can, get some trigger time on different guns before you spend your money.
If budget limitations are an issue, then you'll more likely want to go with a pumpgun- they tend to be less expensive. I would suggest you stick with a repeater from a reputable manufacturer, rather than getting a single shot or double barrel.
For a good number of people, the youth model guns in 20 gauge from Remington, Mossberg or Winchester work well for defensive purposes right out of the box.
hth,
lpl
Hungry Seagull
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Hello.
I chose the Remington 870 because I can shoot just about anything in 12 gauge except ammunition designed for rifled barrels. There was a very large selection of shotguns to choose from. When I picked up the Rem 870 Marine Magnum it felt just right in my hands. Safety was "Right there" Pump not too far out and the 18 inch barrel made for easy manuverability. The nickel silver coating resists salt water which was a plus for me.
My wife found the rem 870 too heavy for her, too long in forearm and all around too "Fat" for her to hold on to. So we went through the guns again for her. She found a Moss 500 bantam 20 gauge with a smaller buttstock and short forearm throw.
As soon as she picked it up and took it to shoulder, she smiled and said that this gun fit right for her feel and hands. All the other guns she did not smile.
The Moss 500 was also a smoothbore but had a choke on it which needed to be replaced with a Imp Cyl choke for slug loads. It came with a wooden dowel in the magazine tube which was removed.
At first we used low recoil rounds at the range until we got used to both weapons. Eventually both of us will use full loads and a bit of mag for fun in ammunition.
Ammunition choices for us is those slug ammo with ranges of 70 yards or less, no more than 1600 fps velocity. We finished testing the Federal Trueball (See video) recently and we both liked it.
The Mossberg is a lighter gun and easier to work with but has a 22 inch barrel and it's reduced stock made for just about equal total length slightly longer than my Rem 870.
The ammunition in the Moss ballistic numbers match my Rem 870's numbers very closely despite differences in Gauge. Sometimes that moss talks like my rem.
Pricing for the weapons was about a thousand dollars total. By the time the lights are added, tatical laser was added and rail installed it came to a bit more money. There is also other considerations for us such as ammo box, a box to keep glasses, batteries, recoil shields etc and gun cases.
Another thing is cleaning supplies. I clean our guns after every visit to the range. We use very good cotton pads, brass bore cleaners, and work hard to keep clean guns. Do you have a place in the home that can be a lead work area? (NOT the kitchen or sleeping areas) for purpose of cleaning weapons?
Does it matter to the wife that I got a more expensive weapon? NO! What matters is that we each have a weapon that we love to hold and that it fits us very well.
At some point in the future the option to trade in the weapons minus value loss towards a new weapon is a possibility. But we think that we have found good weapons for the job that we have in mind for them.
With the correct ammunition for the task, both guns are equally powerful in the tatical short range home defense. The moss is a little more accurate than the 870, but the 870 has that 100 yard or more reach and touch someone. (Something we probably will never use, unless the deer has to be shot for food)
A good gunsmith is a necessary thing. Just like a car needing a good shop.
Take your time, dont be impulsive and go through all the availible weapons. Compare them all. You will know when YOU found the "Right weapon" for YOU. No one else can tell you this.
Are there BAD weapons? Well, I think (No Offense please) that weapons that are excessively chromed, accesorized, wired up, 20 pounds of bling hanging off it where you can hardly operate anything without throwing 20 switches, pulling 3 things and leaning around the monster to see what you are shooting at.
Another weapon to consider is the Benelli, Winchester 1300 (Or speed pump?) or similar pump action type shot guns for home defense.
The sound of that "CLACK-CKLIAK!!!!" is the universal warning to a intruder. Nothing carries as much meaning as that sound does.
We chose two shotguns of different types and find that either one are very good for the task we have in mind for them. We have not been disappointed.
Oh. One other thing, I have previous experience with a single break breech load shottie, it was a very good sweet shooter. But if you miss that intruder or if the gun breaks open while firing (It was a old one) youre finished.
I recommend you avoid the double barrels and breakers. If you fire a double barrel both at the same time... you may get knocked down by the recoil.
Finally but not last. STAY. away. FROM. Wal. Mart. for ammunition. All you do with that birdie stuff is make intruder mad-mad and add to your internal home damage.
Also in our home there are Taser and M&P 40 cal handgun in the home defense picture for the future as well. Sometimes the shotties may not be reachable in time. Something to think about.
I chose the Remington 870 because I can shoot just about anything in 12 gauge except ammunition designed for rifled barrels. There was a very large selection of shotguns to choose from. When I picked up the Rem 870 Marine Magnum it felt just right in my hands. Safety was "Right there" Pump not too far out and the 18 inch barrel made for easy manuverability. The nickel silver coating resists salt water which was a plus for me.
My wife found the rem 870 too heavy for her, too long in forearm and all around too "Fat" for her to hold on to. So we went through the guns again for her. She found a Moss 500 bantam 20 gauge with a smaller buttstock and short forearm throw.
As soon as she picked it up and took it to shoulder, she smiled and said that this gun fit right for her feel and hands. All the other guns she did not smile.
The Moss 500 was also a smoothbore but had a choke on it which needed to be replaced with a Imp Cyl choke for slug loads. It came with a wooden dowel in the magazine tube which was removed.
At first we used low recoil rounds at the range until we got used to both weapons. Eventually both of us will use full loads and a bit of mag for fun in ammunition.
Ammunition choices for us is those slug ammo with ranges of 70 yards or less, no more than 1600 fps velocity. We finished testing the Federal Trueball (See video) recently and we both liked it.
The Mossberg is a lighter gun and easier to work with but has a 22 inch barrel and it's reduced stock made for just about equal total length slightly longer than my Rem 870.
The ammunition in the Moss ballistic numbers match my Rem 870's numbers very closely despite differences in Gauge. Sometimes that moss talks like my rem.
Pricing for the weapons was about a thousand dollars total. By the time the lights are added, tatical laser was added and rail installed it came to a bit more money. There is also other considerations for us such as ammo box, a box to keep glasses, batteries, recoil shields etc and gun cases.
Another thing is cleaning supplies. I clean our guns after every visit to the range. We use very good cotton pads, brass bore cleaners, and work hard to keep clean guns. Do you have a place in the home that can be a lead work area? (NOT the kitchen or sleeping areas) for purpose of cleaning weapons?
Does it matter to the wife that I got a more expensive weapon? NO! What matters is that we each have a weapon that we love to hold and that it fits us very well.
At some point in the future the option to trade in the weapons minus value loss towards a new weapon is a possibility. But we think that we have found good weapons for the job that we have in mind for them.
With the correct ammunition for the task, both guns are equally powerful in the tatical short range home defense. The moss is a little more accurate than the 870, but the 870 has that 100 yard or more reach and touch someone. (Something we probably will never use, unless the deer has to be shot for food)
A good gunsmith is a necessary thing. Just like a car needing a good shop.
Take your time, dont be impulsive and go through all the availible weapons. Compare them all. You will know when YOU found the "Right weapon" for YOU. No one else can tell you this.
Are there BAD weapons? Well, I think (No Offense please) that weapons that are excessively chromed, accesorized, wired up, 20 pounds of bling hanging off it where you can hardly operate anything without throwing 20 switches, pulling 3 things and leaning around the monster to see what you are shooting at.
Another weapon to consider is the Benelli, Winchester 1300 (Or speed pump?) or similar pump action type shot guns for home defense.
The sound of that "CLACK-CKLIAK!!!!" is the universal warning to a intruder. Nothing carries as much meaning as that sound does.
We chose two shotguns of different types and find that either one are very good for the task we have in mind for them. We have not been disappointed.
Oh. One other thing, I have previous experience with a single break breech load shottie, it was a very good sweet shooter. But if you miss that intruder or if the gun breaks open while firing (It was a old one) youre finished.
I recommend you avoid the double barrels and breakers. If you fire a double barrel both at the same time... you may get knocked down by the recoil.
Finally but not last. STAY. away. FROM. Wal. Mart. for ammunition. All you do with that birdie stuff is make intruder mad-mad and add to your internal home damage.
Also in our home there are Taser and M&P 40 cal handgun in the home defense picture for the future as well. Sometimes the shotties may not be reachable in time. Something to think about.
Last edited:
MCgunner
Member
Everyone will tell you 12 gauge and all the tacticool guns are in 12, but 20 gauge loaded with number 3 buck is my choice, and in a coach gun, too. I don't think it'll bounce off and I like the gun. 12 is the universal choice, though, and what all the purpose built tacticool guns are chambered for.
Be kinda neat to see a tacticool Browning BPS 10 gauge. I wonder if the 12 would then be considered adequate by the tacticool, wanna be ninja crowd? LOL
Be kinda neat to see a tacticool Browning BPS 10 gauge. I wonder if the 12 would then be considered adequate by the tacticool, wanna be ninja crowd? LOL
Sav .250
Member
Lots of good ideas posted but don`t over-look your local gun show.
You get to see alot and haggle over price.
You get to see alot and haggle over price.
MCgunner
Member
Well, you mention home defense and most on this board immediately want picatinny rails with flashlight, laser, rear view mirror, bayonet, PG stock, etc, etc and, of course, you HAVE to have a heat shield.
You know, sorta like THIS post only worse? This post doesn't recommend any add ons, but I'm sure the next few will. You wait, there'll be a post in here shortly telling the OP he HAS to have a 12 and a Saiga or some other such. Whatever, my recommendation on an inexpensive gun would be a Maverick 88 which is available with the short barrel. Nothing wrong with using a 20 gauge for defense and a break barrel gun if you know how to use it. Tactical is between the ears and practice makes perfect. I'd suggest a pump with a short and a long barrel. That way, you can go shoot clays and get used to the gun and put the short barrel on for the purpose. But, any shotgun will kill a man at close range, even a four ten single shot. BUT, it's the guy behind the trigger that makes it happen.
Uhh... A Mossberg w/24" bore-barrel and iron sights is a deer gun. No rails, no lights, wood stocks, blue finish. I like the balance, and I can hit something 100 feet away, which is a more typical distance for home-defense around chez-Les. I have four for four confirmed one-shot kills in HD duty with this shotgun: two rabid skunks, one rabid racoon, and one very healthy copperhead. No wait, I shot the copperhead twice.
Les
Les
JImbothefiveth
Member
I have an 870, but I hear the mossbergs are good too. The only accessory I'd reccomend for any gun is a magazine that holds 5 or 6 rounds, and maybe a home defense bbl. If you want to hunt deer, you still can with a dot or aperture sight.
Hungry Seagull
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Before we go overboard with 100 yard shooting, consider your house, apartment, trailer park or other dwelling and consider your neighbors and how far they are from you when you are inside your home.
I favor Brenneke's tatical HD slugs because at about 35 yards they pretty much fall down to the ground. 35 yards is a hell of a long way and almost reaches some lands and fences of my neighbors. Some of my other low recoil slugs tend to bounce along the range floor past 50 yards that is fine too. We dont care.
But breaking out the mags and long slugs for 75-100+ yards... well there is either a mountain lion somewhere on the land or something. I have the room to fire one of these. But most folks live in housing that is much closer than 100 yards to other homes. I plead with those to consider ranges of HD ammunition to try and avoid collateral damage to neighbors.
I know there are many long gun rifles with scopes in my area that far outranges my shotgun, that is ok, intent is HD from within the dwelling itself.
Years ago I lived in a apartment that was made of concrete all around and if I had fired that pistol then, it would have roamed around the entire room chopping up everything within it, frangible rounds were not availible or known to me back then.
Something to think about.
I favor Brenneke's tatical HD slugs because at about 35 yards they pretty much fall down to the ground. 35 yards is a hell of a long way and almost reaches some lands and fences of my neighbors. Some of my other low recoil slugs tend to bounce along the range floor past 50 yards that is fine too. We dont care.
But breaking out the mags and long slugs for 75-100+ yards... well there is either a mountain lion somewhere on the land or something. I have the room to fire one of these. But most folks live in housing that is much closer than 100 yards to other homes. I plead with those to consider ranges of HD ammunition to try and avoid collateral damage to neighbors.
I know there are many long gun rifles with scopes in my area that far outranges my shotgun, that is ok, intent is HD from within the dwelling itself.
Years ago I lived in a apartment that was made of concrete all around and if I had fired that pistol then, it would have roamed around the entire room chopping up everything within it, frangible rounds were not availible or known to me back then.
Something to think about.
Well, I'll follow up to my original post. I was in a similar boat to you up until a few days ago. I was looking for a nice utility shotgun, and I was impartial to the 20ga, but after looking at price, selection, and availability of the 12 and 20 ga ammunition I chose to go with the 12. What it came down to was, I had a better selection of ammo (from BB to 000-buck, to 1&3/8th oz cannon rou...errr slugs) in the 12ga cambering then in with the 20 ga. It also helped that the 12-ga stuff tended to be cheaper then the 20ga. (100 rounds of 12ga target loads: $20, 100 rounds of 20ga target loads: $23)
From shooting the 12ga with Federal bulk 100 round 1&1/8th oz #8 hunting/plinking load and Super-X 9-pellet 00-buck, I will say that the Federal stuff does seem to kick a little more then the buck, which is great, since that makes it very economical to practice with, at $.20 a pop versus $1 a pop for the 00.
So, that's my take. Now for HD, 20ga and 12ga are both excellent choices, but from an accessory and ammunition price standpoint, I do think a 12ga has a slight edge. Both are Swiss-army knives of guns, just it seems to me that the 12ga has a wider selection of tools then the 20ga.
As for my Mossy, the only aftermarket thing I'm doing to it is putting a 6-position stock on it so its more compact for storage (its my truck-gun) and because the LOP on the OEM stock is a tad too long for my arms. I am NOT advocating that you need a laser, high-intensity flashlight, Knoxx Spec-Ops stock, side saddle shell holder, verti-grip slide, an EOTech, and have the whole thing rail encrusted for it to be effective at HD, or that you ought to get a Saiga-12 with all the above with a 10" barrel and an NFA stamp. I personally find the simplicity and the implicit reliability of a pump much preferable to an automatic. Heck, the Saiga is about the only automatic I would trust, and even then not completely.
Happy hunting!
From shooting the 12ga with Federal bulk 100 round 1&1/8th oz #8 hunting/plinking load and Super-X 9-pellet 00-buck, I will say that the Federal stuff does seem to kick a little more then the buck, which is great, since that makes it very economical to practice with, at $.20 a pop versus $1 a pop for the 00.
So, that's my take. Now for HD, 20ga and 12ga are both excellent choices, but from an accessory and ammunition price standpoint, I do think a 12ga has a slight edge. Both are Swiss-army knives of guns, just it seems to me that the 12ga has a wider selection of tools then the 20ga.
As for my Mossy, the only aftermarket thing I'm doing to it is putting a 6-position stock on it so its more compact for storage (its my truck-gun) and because the LOP on the OEM stock is a tad too long for my arms. I am NOT advocating that you need a laser, high-intensity flashlight, Knoxx Spec-Ops stock, side saddle shell holder, verti-grip slide, an EOTech, and have the whole thing rail encrusted for it to be effective at HD, or that you ought to get a Saiga-12 with all the above with a 10" barrel and an NFA stamp. I personally find the simplicity and the implicit reliability of a pump much preferable to an automatic. Heck, the Saiga is about the only automatic I would trust, and even then not completely.
Happy hunting!
Hungry Seagull
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12 gauge is easier to find than 20 gauge sometimes.
But once in a while that 20 gauger kicks me the same as the 870 and talks like it too.
Just try finding a ammo box made for just 20 gauge shells. Ive aint had luck yet.
But once in a while that 20 gauger kicks me the same as the 870 and talks like it too.
Just try finding a ammo box made for just 20 gauge shells. Ive aint had luck yet.
Seagull makes many good points about gun selection. If it don't fit, it won't work right. One thing that is much overrated however, is the sound of the gun being racked. The only folks I ever see duck when that happens is other LEO types hoping that it is not the rookie right behind them doing it. You must remember that the guy breaking into your home is not thinking like us to begin with. So do not expect him to react like we will to anything, even a breadbasket full of buckshot! The bad guys are not attuned to normal responses, even if they hear them, which is in itself questionable.
I do have a tactical 10 gauge BPS, well it is a work in progress. So far it has a 19" barrel (barrel cut was determined by the vent rib contact points), which is about .75" ahead of the mag tube. It just got a synthetic stock/forend. I am determining the rifle sights, will probably be a ghost ring with a luminous front. In the meantime it has a night sight front bead. There are no mag extensions available, or needed.
I have been experimenting with ammo from #1 buck to 0000 buck and slugs, in both 3" and 3.5" magnums. The 3.5" magnum slugs are just out of this solar system, on both ends. Only fired 2 out of a box of 25 so far. All of the buck groups quite well at 25 and 40 yards from the necessarily cylinder bore. I might find someone who can maybe make it improved cylinder or even put tubes in it. There are no sabot slugs available that I have found, but no rifled bores either so that is a wash. The 2 3.5" slugs I fired went into 2" at 40 yards. 3' slugs are grouping into 3" at 60 yards with only the bead sight, which I find quite acceptable as minute of felon at that range.
Recoil is OK with 3" mags, but gets unreal with larger rounds. The 3.5" 0000 and slugs is just awsome, and the muzzle flash is in the energy wasting range as it could light a small home for a while. When finished I will post pics if I can figure out how. It will eventually have an appropriate OD or OD/black finish, or maybe urban camo????
I do have a tactical 10 gauge BPS, well it is a work in progress. So far it has a 19" barrel (barrel cut was determined by the vent rib contact points), which is about .75" ahead of the mag tube. It just got a synthetic stock/forend. I am determining the rifle sights, will probably be a ghost ring with a luminous front. In the meantime it has a night sight front bead. There are no mag extensions available, or needed.
I have been experimenting with ammo from #1 buck to 0000 buck and slugs, in both 3" and 3.5" magnums. The 3.5" magnum slugs are just out of this solar system, on both ends. Only fired 2 out of a box of 25 so far. All of the buck groups quite well at 25 and 40 yards from the necessarily cylinder bore. I might find someone who can maybe make it improved cylinder or even put tubes in it. There are no sabot slugs available that I have found, but no rifled bores either so that is a wash. The 2 3.5" slugs I fired went into 2" at 40 yards. 3' slugs are grouping into 3" at 60 yards with only the bead sight, which I find quite acceptable as minute of felon at that range.
Recoil is OK with 3" mags, but gets unreal with larger rounds. The 3.5" 0000 and slugs is just awsome, and the muzzle flash is in the energy wasting range as it could light a small home for a while. When finished I will post pics if I can figure out how. It will eventually have an appropriate OD or OD/black finish, or maybe urban camo????
Hungry Seagull
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Jack, posting picture is for Imageshack, Photobucket etc.
Register with a email and user name your choice.
Upload a image or video and presto! linky time.
Copy and paste "Direct" link and re paste here and presto image!
Anyone who WANTS to break into a home in a deadly defense state is in God's hands, or not. I dont expect normal reactions from the BG.
One button I have pushed from time to time is those alarm system commercials with two painted up bg's busting door, run away with siren blaring. NORMAL BG invaders know that time is very short and usually switch to target acquistion mode. It's over one way or the other, very quickly.
It may not be that shottie being racked, it might be the taser being readied or even the M&P 40 cal. anything can happen. They just dont know. The other side of coin is for us, we dont know what they have either.
People have bought a gun for defense. Then stick it into the night stand with everything unpacked and unshot etc. Practice is necessary. More practice is even better.
It is far better to need a weapon and have one ready to go and no issues or fumbling. Than it is to need one and not have it or able to get to one.
Register with a email and user name your choice.
Upload a image or video and presto! linky time.
Copy and paste "Direct" link and re paste here and presto image!
Anyone who WANTS to break into a home in a deadly defense state is in God's hands, or not. I dont expect normal reactions from the BG.
One button I have pushed from time to time is those alarm system commercials with two painted up bg's busting door, run away with siren blaring. NORMAL BG invaders know that time is very short and usually switch to target acquistion mode. It's over one way or the other, very quickly.
It may not be that shottie being racked, it might be the taser being readied or even the M&P 40 cal. anything can happen. They just dont know. The other side of coin is for us, we dont know what they have either.
People have bought a gun for defense. Then stick it into the night stand with everything unpacked and unshot etc. Practice is necessary. More practice is even better.
It is far better to need a weapon and have one ready to go and no issues or fumbling. Than it is to need one and not have it or able to get to one.
MCgunner
Member
They had stacks of 3 buck at Academy for a long time, until the election. Now, the cupboard is bare, not just 20, but 12 gauge 00 gone missing.
I find 20 gauge anywhere I find 12, actually, and about the same price, even 3" STEEL shot, but then this is waterfowl country down here and shelves are well stocked right before teal season starts in September.If you can't find 20 gauge loads, you ain't lookin'. Hell, try TEN gauge for ammo availability! I had to order 00 for it. I can buy steel T shot for goose hunting locally, though. I have a MEC reloader set up for 10, now, just need to order some T steel shot to get set up on it.
Bud Tugly
Member
Lots of folks seem to envision HD situations as the alpha male of the family defending his hearth and home armed with a powerful and intimidating weapon. Nothing wrong with that, except you need to also think of other scenarios.
IMO you should also plan for what happens if your home is invaded while you're away at work or if you go down in the first exchange of gunfire and somebody else has to pick up the slack. What then?
A 12 gauge is definitely the most versatile, but some wives or other family members might be intimidated by the size, weight, or recoil. That could be an argument for something like a youth model 20 gauge if you are only going to have one gun.
Another option might be a smaller gun as a backup, and even something like a single shot H&R would be acceptable in a pinch. Many people find them less intimidating and would be more willing to practice with it, which is a necessary part of the defense plan.
IMO you should also plan for what happens if your home is invaded while you're away at work or if you go down in the first exchange of gunfire and somebody else has to pick up the slack. What then?
A 12 gauge is definitely the most versatile, but some wives or other family members might be intimidated by the size, weight, or recoil. That could be an argument for something like a youth model 20 gauge if you are only going to have one gun.
Another option might be a smaller gun as a backup, and even something like a single shot H&R would be acceptable in a pinch. Many people find them less intimidating and would be more willing to practice with it, which is a necessary part of the defense plan.
Hungry Seagull
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Tugly, My spouse was a Marine. (Was, always is a Marine...) the way we live, the home is 24/7 with very few times that we both are away.
That is where CCW's come in on the M&P 40. We also carry plan of day on each other and communicate day and night.
With health issues, I may pass on before spouse does or vice versa. Im not about to leave this life and go across to the next without making sure that spouse knows how to keep and maintain weapons and take care of herself and she feels the same for me.
Best case scenario is intruder fights TWO, (No alpha male here, make that a fighting Hubby Wife fireteam of two)
Worse case, Intruder gets inside home when both are not home and manages somehow to hide the evidence visible from outside and lays ambush. If we detect this, we can have 20 LEO's with dogs and whatnot onto the property in minutes and the neighbors will also be arming up as well. The LEO's will be told that they can storm the dwelling and anyone inside is fair game.
Everything else is a even chance toss up. So far Arkansas homeowners have pretty much prevailed 9 to 1 in thier favor. Recently one had three intruders get into thier home. One was wounded and two not, family was ok. Third person turned himself in 3 weeks later. And these were Teens who apparently hit a home of a LEO as rumor has it. BAD choice LOL.
That is where CCW's come in on the M&P 40. We also carry plan of day on each other and communicate day and night.
With health issues, I may pass on before spouse does or vice versa. Im not about to leave this life and go across to the next without making sure that spouse knows how to keep and maintain weapons and take care of herself and she feels the same for me.
Best case scenario is intruder fights TWO, (No alpha male here, make that a fighting Hubby Wife fireteam of two)
Worse case, Intruder gets inside home when both are not home and manages somehow to hide the evidence visible from outside and lays ambush. If we detect this, we can have 20 LEO's with dogs and whatnot onto the property in minutes and the neighbors will also be arming up as well. The LEO's will be told that they can storm the dwelling and anyone inside is fair game.
Everything else is a even chance toss up. So far Arkansas homeowners have pretty much prevailed 9 to 1 in thier favor. Recently one had three intruders get into thier home. One was wounded and two not, family was ok. Third person turned himself in 3 weeks later. And these were Teens who apparently hit a home of a LEO as rumor has it. BAD choice LOL.
MCgunner
Member
I've killed one heck of a lot of big ducks and even an 18 pound canadian goose with a 20 gauge when I was a kid. That goose fell at 30 yards from a load of number 5 lead in 2 3/4". So, I guess those chickens were wearing armor plate?
20 pellets of 3 buck at 15 feet? Yeah, it'll bounce off.........
Some of you people need to go bird hunting, like for the last 45 years. The only thing the 12 has is a few more shot in the pattern. Yeah, it'll shoot 00. That's fine if you're deer hunting out to 35 yards. Rather use my 10 gauge, though, with TWICE the hit probability, 18 pellets in one load. You can do that with a 12, too, a 3.5" magnum.
20 pellets of 3 buck at 15 feet? Yeah, it'll bounce off.........
Some of you people need to go bird hunting, like for the last 45 years.
The only thing the 12 has is a few more shot in the pattern. Yeah, it'll shoot 00. That's fine if you're deer hunting out to 35 yards. Rather use my 10 gauge, though, with TWICE the hit probability, 18 pellets in one load. You can do that with a 12, too, a 3.5" magnum.- Status
