What if...?

[Nightcrawler]

Ever wonder what would've come about if certain successful, famous rifles had never been designed?

For example, what do you conject might've come about had Kalashnikov never designed the AK-47? I imagine the SKS-45 would've been in frontline service for a bit longer, possibly upgraded to take detachable magazines, with a shortened barrel (sort of like the Norinco so-called "paratrooper" models).

What if the M16 had never been designed? That's actually an easy one; we probably would've kept on using the M14 and M2 carbine until the AR-18 was available. But what if Stoner never existed, and neither designs ever came about? Was there anything else on the drawing boards for a small-caliber, select fire rifle?

What if the early trials with the M14 rifle had all failed dismally? Think we would've gone with the FAL?

 

[Preacherman]

What if black powder had never been invented?

 

[Sactown]

What if black powder had never been invented?

then the brady bunch would be trying to ban trees because trees make clubs and bows and we have to stop drive by clubbings and arrowings, because it's for the children.

 

[Detritus]

What if the early trials with the M14 rifle had all failed dismally? Think we would've gone with the FAL?

I was under the impression they DID, but that DoD/ordnance/etc/so on and so forth, refused to accept a foreign made/designed rifle as standard issue USGI......

thus wasting millions in taxpayer money to develop a rifle based on a flawed and unacheivable concept. i.e. make a Garand based longarm into a viable replacement for not only the garand itself, but the BAR and all other "squad level" longarms, and do so using a full power round

based on the arguments i've seen by BOTH sides of the "FAL debates" even the FAL was and is not a viable replacement for all the various "tools" that US Ord. wanted the gun to take the place of. all the various "7.62 Assault rifles" are either uncntrolable in FA or weigh too freaking much (gotta tote THAT much poundage around, may as well issue each troop a BAR or a true GPMG)

getting back to the thread topic... one of my fave musings is what if ALL of the following conditions had been met..

the ordnance dept had not tried to sabotage the M-16,

stoner had been kept 'in the loop' AND BEEN LISTENED TO,

McNamarra had kept his greasy little clueless fingers out of weapons development decisions.

and lastly and only sucessfully viable if all of the above are met..

What if the M-16 had been properly developed, modified and field tested, BEFORE even the first combat platoon was equipped??

instead of the gun being developed to prototype stage then ripped from the control and oversight of the designer and development group, sold to Colt and having a POLITICIAN declare "if it needed (improvments X,Y,and Z) the design team would have put them in at the begining" and thus have a under-developed, unFINISHED, PROTOTYPE stage weapon, sent to a full combat enviroment, and placed in the hands of troops untrained in its use, and care, and grossly misinformed about it's maintainence needs.

and what if the military had chosen an upgrade from the M-16A1 that retained or only slightly improved on the fairly decent combat sights, and fairly handy ergonomics of the A1, then added those upgrades from the "A2" that were actually NEEDED not just "wanted by the rifle cranks"
in other words what if the "A2" improvements had been COMBAT focused instead of trying to make it a viable "combat & target" rifle (all the A2 sight system did was add complexity and a furter need for training time, to the use of the rifle at a time when the training budgets were being slashed to the bone)

 

[telewinz]

No M16................a converted .22 caliber centerfire M1 carbine
No AK47...............detachable magazine SKS and FAL Clone
No M14...............FN FAL built under license in the US
No M1 Garand.....FN49 (1939) buy the design outright
No M60...............German MG 42 built under license in US
DOD flashlight....40 KiloWatt pulse rifle

IMHO Looking at this list we (the US) have suffered a long streak of BAD LUCK and accepted 2nd rate designs.

 

[Nightcrawler]

German MG 42 built under license in US

Like the MG3? Certainly a better GPMG than the M60 ever was.

I don't think the Garand qualifies as a 2nd rate design, though. A reliable FN49 in .30-06 would've been something, though. Especially since with a 10 round detachable box mag, you could easily replace it with a 20 rounder, giving our troops a serious firepower advantage over the Germans, with their 5-shot bolt actions.

 

[AJ Dual]

I do find it somewhat ironic that the original FAL concept in that intermediate .270 or .280 British round, is almost precicely what the latest gas piston uppered 6.5mm AR's are going to be.