What milsurp rifle receivers are considered
- Thread starter nathan
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Early Weatherby rifles were built on 98 Mauser actions, so they must not have problems taking pressure. I believe they were commercial Mausers, but I don't know if they differed from military versions in their basic construction (as opposed to features like stripper guides on military, scope mount drill-and-tap for commercial, etc.).
Garands have their limits, though that may be due to the gas system more than the strength of the receiver itself. K-31 have similar limitations, with their straight-pull bolt design.
The M96 Swedes are just really old, dating from the dawn of the smokeless powder era. The .30-06 is 10 years younger.
Garands have their limits, though that may be due to the gas system more than the strength of the receiver itself. K-31 have similar limitations, with their straight-pull bolt design.
The M96 Swedes are just really old, dating from the dawn of the smokeless powder era. The .30-06 is 10 years younger.
rcmodel
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That is correct, although I would certainly not include the Mosin in that group with the 98 Mauser, 03A3, and M1 Garand.
The other older Mausers may be strong enough, but gas handling in the event of a ruptured primer or case is not nearly as well designed as the later 98 and others.
The Mosin has no gas handling system at all.
Both it and the K31 are considered safe up to 45,000 PSI.
It has been stated in Hatchers Notebook that as of that date, there had never been a reported receiver blow-up reported on any M-1 Garand.
rc
Yeah, the Mosin was made to arm tens of millions of expendable peasants. Safety wasn't exactly the top concern, either for the Tsar, or for his Communist successors. It was also designed in the 19th Century, though it was updated a bit, later.
the 98k has 2 locking lugs and is very safe. 60,000 psi is the max I would go with a large ring mauser, but destruction tests typically see a failure ( IE blowed up) at around 95,000.
As you can see the 98 action blows away its competition in the pressures it can hold upto, but to be safe if your going to run high pressure out of a mauser, make sure you do it from the best. I would avoid any late war german 98k mausers, spanish mausers, and possibly yugo mausers if you plan on rechambering it for high pressure hand loads due to possible quality control issues.
As you can see the 98 action blows away its competition in the pressures it can hold upto, but to be safe if your going to run high pressure out of a mauser, make sure you do it from the best. I would avoid any late war german 98k mausers, spanish mausers, and possibly yugo mausers if you plan on rechambering it for high pressure hand loads due to possible quality control issues.
NCsmitty
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Actually a 98K has 3 locking lugs, the 1 in the back of the bolt is utilized in a failure of the front 2. The gas handling capabilities of the 98 action is superior to any of the earlier versions.
NCsmitty
M96's were made of the same plain carbon steels throughout its production. Still, by the time you get to 1930ish, steel quality and process controls are much better than pre 1920 stuff. I have seen M96's that were factory barreled to 8mm Mauser. European 8mm, not the weak American factory stuff.
The K31 should be a strong action. I have not taken the time to analyze it, but it is dual lugged, there is a lot of metal behind the lugs, and all of them were made after 1931. My loads, which push a 168 SMK or 174 FMJBT to 2550-2600 fps don't seem to bother the action at all.
Here is the thing guys, these actions were designed to carry a specific load. That load equals the load that the service cartridge put out, plus a safety margin. Depending on the era of the metullurgy, and the quality of the heat treatment, these actions should be able to shoot an infinite number of service rounds without structural failure.
However, "hot loads" are an unknown. Anything above factory loading eat up the margins of strength in these actions. I read that Weatherby cartridges were cracking the lugs or receivers of those FN actions. Roy Weatherby had to go to a stronger action. The M98 action was never designed to withstand the bolt thrust of belted magnums. That fact that a number did, without problems, does not mean it was wise practice to use that action.
These are pictures of a 264 Winchester Magnum FN action. I don't know what cracked the lugs, but I suspect a little off heat treatment and that belted magnum did the trick.
Just don't hot load actions to see if they will blow.
Cosmoline
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Mosins are as strong as a Mauser '98. They have the same two front locking lugs and a truly monumental safety lug in the form of a bolt handle base. For technical and historical reasons they've never been as popular for hunting rifle platforms. At least outside of Finland. But they're among the very strongest surplus actions. The action was never updated beyond a few minor alterations. It didn't need to be. Finns were reusing pre-98 receivers into the 1970's. That's solid!
I've never even heard of one kabooming even with all the crazy stunts people pull with them. The only historical report of problems I know of were some M91's captured by the Austrians with out-of-round chambers that created difficulties extracting brass, plus the problems with the Bannerman conversions.
Arisakas are also known to be very strong rifles, at least the ones before the cast iron "last ditch" models.
R.W.Dale
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The French MAS 36 is more than up to 308 pressures.
You could also add early war T99 and T38 Arisakas to your list
You could also add early war T99 and T38 Arisakas to your list
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Nicodemus38
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surplusrifle forum moderators did testing with the 91/30 reloading cast lead bullets with trail boss powder under cast lead bullets in 154-180 grain weight. They determined that their most accurate load was generating 60,000+ psi in chamber pressure.
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Cast Iron "Arisakas" were never meant to be fired with service ammunition. They are in fact training rifles. I think they were for the Japanese equivalent of the ROTC.
I picked one up at a Pawn Shop. The shop labled the thing as 6.5 Jap. From a distance, or if you did not know what an original type 38 looked it, it looked like a rifle. It would take a bayonet, has an extractor, swivels, etc. But the longer I looked at it I noticed things were a little off.
When I looked down the barrel and did not see rifling, that is when I figured out it was one of those rare training rifles.
I have not fed 6.5 Jap ammo in the rifle, but I have no doubt that it will feed from the magazine and can be fired. Shooting a service cartridge would blow the receiver as this thing was only meant for blanks.
The Japanese knew better, but since it looks like the real thing, Americans blew themselves up shooting real ammo in the things.
These training rifles are very rare, I have the only one I have ever seen.
scythefwd
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Shoot, there are custom .338 mag and .458 mag garands out there (that of course are using modified gas system).
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