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What on earth is going on here?

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charleym3

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Dec 26, 2002
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I'm reloading 45ACP with Bullseye. 4.5 grns under a 200grn rnfp from Grandmaster Bullets in Colorado. WLP primer. Shooting from a S&W 22-4 4 inch barrel revolver. first 6 rounds the average velocity was 612fps. :eek: SD was 26 ES was 46 for 6 rounds.
Great SSR load but not much for ESR.

Should have been in the mid 700s. Old powder? Bad position on the Chronograph? The bullets were passing about 6 inches above the sky screens of the pact chrono.

Windy overcast day. I'm going to switch out to titegroup and see what happens, but that's way low.
 
Are you using load data for the same exact bullet type you are using?

Lyman shows data for two different 200 grain LSWC bullets they make molds for.

One design takes a 4.9 Bullseye starting load, and gives 840 FPS at 12,900 CUP.
The max load is 6.0 grains- 909 FPS- 17,000 CUP

The other one takes 4.0 grains starting for 680 FPS - 10,100 CUP.
Using 5.6 grains makes it a MAX load, and it reaches 869 FPS at 15,700 CUP.

Different driving bands and base design are the only two changes to make that much differance.

rc
 
No, not the same bullet, but that is a huge difference. Extrapolating the curve I could be around 6.3 grns before I get to the 840 fps that I need to make power factor for the Carolina Cup.

Maybe I should try the TiteGroup. So much to do to develope a load. :scrutiny:
 
Mid 700s based on your experience with that gun, or mid 700s based on published data? Actual velocities and published velocities don't always match up, given test barrels used. Just some ideas.
 
Above the sky screens??? Don't you mean 6" above the sensors and under the sky screens?
Click to expand...

Sky screens and sensor are the same thing. What you call sky screens are diffusers.

The first chronographs used screens made of wire fastened to a sheet of paper. The wires were hooked to the start-stop terminals on the chrono. When a bullet broke the start wire, it started the clock, then when it broke the stop wire the clock stopped,(the clock being an oscillator circuit with a frequency of millions of beats a second). The readout was a series of numbers that had to be converted into velocity in FPS.

When electric eyes were substituted for wires, they were originally called "sky screens" because they read the shadow of the bullet against the sky.

Reading my second paragraph, we can all be glad we get a read-out in feet per second, we don't have to put a new screen up for each shot, and we can shoot groups at the same time we see the velocity. Add to that the other info a modern chronograph gives us! High, low extreme spread, standard deviation, and AD.
 
If you don't get the results you are looking for with Titegroup I would suggest giving W231 a try. I'm sure you will like the way it shoots and it's also a very clean powder. W231 is all I use now for my .45 Auto loads.
 
found the problem

First let me say that I was expecting mid 700s based on published data.

Here's what happened. A while back a fried of mine offered me some bullesye powder because he was tired of reloading. Sure, it was still sealed in it's container. Back pedal a couple of years.
I stopped shooting and put mu guns in the safe about 4 years ago. doesn't matter why. I also stopped reloading. Now I'm shooting again and needed to build a load for IDPA ESR division because for sure that chronographing will be part of a major match in NC in June and I want to be ready.
So I figure that I'll burn through this bullseye.
I did everything right when I started reloading. Only one kind of powder, bullet, and primer on the loading bench. Triple checked the charge weight. Adjusted the dies to the lot of brass I was using. Everything!
So as I was adjusting the charge weight up getting ready for the next round of test rounds I noticed the can of powder. It didn't look right. aAnd for good reason. It was't!

The powder was Unique, not bullseye. A quick check of loading manual told me why the rounds were so slow. Boy do I feel stupid. I let what believed get ahead of checking. And not just once. I should have looked at the can when I took it out of the cabinet, though in fairness I only have two owders, the 1 lb cans of Unique and an 8 lb keg of titegroup. I also failed to verify when I filled the powder measure. I failed.:banghead:
Then I started thinking how this story would have been different if I had been setting up to load, say 2400 and filled the measure with bullseye. I could have ben killed. That is a very sobering thought. I was doing the test firing alone in my backyard. I live in the county and I was the only one home. I had so many opportunities to catch this mistake and missed them all, however, I have learned a lesson. Never ever trust what I "know" when I'm assembling stuff that goes bang close to my body. Check 3 times.
I used to be so super careful about reloading. I will be again.

It is a good reminder for me that what we do is dangerous and cannot be taken lightly.
 
That will do it every time. At least it was not the other way around. That would have been bad, very bad.
 
Thanks snuffy. Always glad to learn something new. And as a matter of fact my Pact 1 does just that. See the bullets shadow...

And I vote for W-231 too...Or you might have a look at WSF...
 
Glad you worked it out without any injuries.

Also, I've been hearing good things about Winchester's new AutoComp powder. It was designed for use in the 38 Super, 9mm, 40 S&W and .45 Auto. It just might be worth a look along with W231.
 
AutoComp appears to be at the extreme low end of burning rate for 200 grain lead bullets in the .45ACP.

It is the slowest powder Hodgdon list with that bullet, and it take 7.2 grains to get 914 FPS.

I think it might be at it's best with heavier jacketed bullets in the .45 ACP.

But it appears to be really at it's best in the smaller high-pressure calibers.

rc
 
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