What should i think of this?

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mgrych

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I went to the range and shot 15 sets of 6 rounds (.223) at different powder amounts.
My first good grouping was 23/32nd of an inch at 24.4 gr.
My Second good grouping was 19/32nd of an inch at 25 gr. (it was actually 5 rounds at 19/32nd of an inch because i pulled one out 2 inches to the right so i didn't count it)
My last good grouping was 28/32nd of an inch at 25.6 gr. (max load)

My question is how come i dont see a pattern with the groupings? I increased each set by .2 gr. so there are a few groups in between these good ones but they all sucked. Should i pick one set to load up or should i investigate further? Like load these 3 sets up again and compare to each other again?
 
Pick one load, (powder and weight) fire several groups on several different days to build a larger data base of your groupings before moving either up or down, or to a different powder.
You also may not see any significant difference depending on what powder with such small variations in weight. You also need to decide how fussy you are going to be as far as group size and at what distance. What is your objective?
 
My objective... To shoot large birds, varmints, and yotes out to long distances... yotes out to about 500 yds. and the rest in the 300 yd range. 19/32nds is just over a half inch, so thats not that bad right? This was all done at 100 yds with a bipod and scope
 
The groups aren't bad, but you might not want to stretch the .223 out to 500 yards on coyotes. Others with more experience may be able to help you with the handloading questions.
 
Did you let the barrel cool between sets, or was it one after another? I personally do not mess with .2 grain increments. I use .5 grain increments to validate differences. The loads that you're using where the differences are so small, how do you know if it's the load or if it's you making the difference?
I would load a 24.5, a 25.0 and a 25.5, probably 10 rounds each. Then shoot a string of 5 rounds and cool the barrel for 5 min. and so on. You should be able to pick out a load that performed the best and go with it.
What COAL are you using? 2.200, 2.230, 2.250?


NCsmitty
 
I went to the range and shot 15 sets of 6 rounds (.223) at different powder amounts.
My first good grouping was 23/32nd of an inch at 24.4 gr.
My Second good grouping was 19/32nd of an inch at 25 gr. (it was actually 5 rounds at 19/32nd of an inch because i pulled one out 2 inches to the right so i didn't count it)
My last good grouping was 28/32nd of an inch at 25.6 gr. (max load)

My question is how come i dont see a pattern with the groupings? I increased each set by .2 gr. so there are a few groups in between these good ones but they all sucked. Should i pick one set to load up or should i investigate further? Like load these 3 sets up again and compare to each other again?

'But they all sucked?' You have shot three sub-one-inch groups at 100 yds and they suck? I guess I am befuddled at your comment. Are you expecting benchrest accuracy (group sizes)? If you are expecting to shoot out to 500 yards then I would highly recommend that you invest in a good chronograph. It will allow you to analyze the loads in terms of Standard Deviation (SD). SD is THE indicator whereby a longrange load is compiled. Typically, loads that will shoot at midrange and longrange require single digit SD's. Too, 300 yards or beyond is usually the distance to test the accuracy of a load. 100 yards will not tell you very much.
 
Without a Chronograph the type of load develpment you are doing is much less effective. You will find a load your rifle likes better than the next but you are missing out on some vital data.
 
i ran a boresnake down the barrel every other set (6 rds per set) and walked to check and change the target so the gun had about 5 min to cool between every other set i did notice that my first shot after i let it cool and cleaned it was always the flyer of the group...

Also i did the test to get a good OAL for the cartridge and seated the bullet with an OAL of 2.360 seems long but that the number i get
 
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I have a number of comments:

1. As others have noted, increasing the powder charge in a 223 Rem. case in 0.2 gr. increments is a waste of time. I would use 0.5 gr. increments.

2. A single group will not tell the whole accuracy story. You need to start load workup at the lower end of the suggested range and work up at 0.5 gr. increments to the upper range. Then pick the load where the group was the smallest for further testing to be sure that your accuracy wasn't a statistical accident.

3. You're being far more compulsive than I would be with barrel cleaning so I don't think that's your problem.

4. While many consider sub MOA groups acceptable, you're to be applauded for wanting to do better. A lot of rifles/shooters will not do less than 0.5 MOA consistently with any load but with a 223 Rem. I believe groups less than 0.75 MOA should be doable in many.

5. If you hit a coyote at 500 yards in a vital place with a 223, you will kill it. A 223 actually isn't much behind a 22-250 in velocity. If you can consistently shoot 0.75 MOA, theoretically a 400 yard group size would be 3 inches under ideal circumstances and a 500 yard group a little larger. This would certainly be small enough to fit inside a coyote's kill zone. The big problem in long range shooting is knowing the bullet drop and knowing the range. With a flat shooting gun, 400 yard shots are quite doable with a bit of fudging; with longer shots even a small miscalculation of range or trajectory would cause a miss.

6. I have a chronograph but have never used it for load workup. I just use it to satisfy my curosity as to how fast my bullets are going.

7. While I acknowledge that 5 shot groups are more statistically valid than 3 shot groups, I use 3 shot groups in load workup. Typically, starting from the lower end of the load range, groups will start out largish, will get smaller and will then open up again as a maximum load is approached. I select the load range where the groups were the smallest for further testing.

8. I use match bullets (Sierra, Nosler or Berger) for load work up if they're available. That way, if there is an accuracy problem, I know it's not the bullet. I consult a load manual for a recommended powder (the Nosler manual is especially useful in this regard). If I'm not satisfied with accuracy with a particular powder, I try another.
 
ok, seems to make sense... I read the info that 1858 provided, and it seems like good info but my problem is that my loads that have a very close powder amount dont group like those around it, im not seeing any pattern.. Also that info 1858 supplied claimed that OAL doesn't matter.. First i've heard of that..
 
If you hit a coyote at 500 yards in a vital place with a 223, you will kill it.
Click to expand...
If you hit it in a vital place, you will shoot a .22 caliber hole through it.
It will certainly die sooner or later.

Velocity at 500 yards from the .223 has dropped off to the point most bullets will not perform as designed, and many will not provide the explosive performance needed for a clean DRT kill at that range.

rcmodel
 
All these replies, we still don't know if he's shooting a rifle, or a handgun, or what make/model. Or what bullet or what powder.

I also noted he's using a bipod. I don't own one/would never own one. You just can't tell anything about groups while resting the forearm on a solid point under the rifle. I don't even begin measuring groups until I have the rifle supported by a sloid tipod with a sand bag on it, and the buttstock on a rear bag.

Another thing, start measuring groups using your caliper. That will give groups in thousandths, instead of 32ths . Easier to see where you're coming from. Outside to outside, then subtrack calliber, .224 in the .223 cartridge.
 
Sorry about not clarifying... I have a Savage model 10 LE in .223.. It has a 22" free floating barrel. I use a bipod and rest the back end on a sandbag. Shots are at 100 yds. with very little wind. My cartridges are winchester brass 6th time reloaded, with 55gr. Nosler ballistic tip bullets over Benchmark powder ranging from 24.2 to 25.6 grains. the best being 24.4, 25, and 25.6 with not so good groups in between.. this is why im so confused...
 
Mgrych - the groupings you mention may indicate that you are observing the effects of barrel harmonics within your rifle setup. Try googling Audette ladder test, research the effects and this means of determining the most accurate loadings for any specific rifle.
 
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