IndianaDean
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If you have the depositions, I stand corrected.
What would Wyatt carry today?
- Thread starter Fun2Shoot
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IndianaDean:
My following comments are not intended to be any kind of personal attack, but rather shine some light on the subject.
Wyatt Earp was an interesting individual in the historical sense. Like all of us he was a human being, and therefore not an absolutely perfect person. Thanks to certain writers, after he died and couldn't respond, he was first portrayed as a storybook frontier marshal, with two six-guns and a quick draw second too none. Later writers set out to debunk the western lawman image and swung to the opposite side of the picture. The truth of course lay somewhere in the middle. Most of the books, movies and television programs that are, or were available to the general public were entirely or mostly fictional.
Meanwhile, starting in the 1970’s some serious historians started digging into old newspapers, court records, letters written at the time, and other so-called “original source material.” They’re intention was to go behind what had been written during the late 1920’s and beyond and find the truth. Among other things, they discovered that the site of the O.K. Corral gunfight (called the “street fight” at the time) as pointed out by local residents in Tombstone during this time frame was actually located on the opposite end of the block! Anyone with true first-hand knowledge had either died or had moved long ago.
Up until the early 1980’s the court records and local newspaper reports I referred to were only known to a handful of historians, and not available to the general public. Today this has largely changed. In 1981 the court records were published verbatim, with only spelling and punctuation corrections being made. If you buy a copy of the following book you can read what was written within a month after the fight happened, with accounts by local eyewitnesses, (and try to decide who was telling the truth and who wasn’t).
“The O.K. Corral Inquest”; by Alford E. Turner (ISBN 0-932702-16-3) Published by the Creative Publishing Company; College Station, TX. 77840
My following comments are not intended to be any kind of personal attack, but rather shine some light on the subject.
Wyatt Earp was an interesting individual in the historical sense. Like all of us he was a human being, and therefore not an absolutely perfect person. Thanks to certain writers, after he died and couldn't respond, he was first portrayed as a storybook frontier marshal, with two six-guns and a quick draw second too none. Later writers set out to debunk the western lawman image and swung to the opposite side of the picture. The truth of course lay somewhere in the middle. Most of the books, movies and television programs that are, or were available to the general public were entirely or mostly fictional.
Meanwhile, starting in the 1970’s some serious historians started digging into old newspapers, court records, letters written at the time, and other so-called “original source material.” They’re intention was to go behind what had been written during the late 1920’s and beyond and find the truth. Among other things, they discovered that the site of the O.K. Corral gunfight (called the “street fight” at the time) as pointed out by local residents in Tombstone during this time frame was actually located on the opposite end of the block! Anyone with true first-hand knowledge had either died or had moved long ago.
Up until the early 1980’s the court records and local newspaper reports I referred to were only known to a handful of historians, and not available to the general public. Today this has largely changed. In 1981 the court records were published verbatim, with only spelling and punctuation corrections being made. If you buy a copy of the following book you can read what was written within a month after the fight happened, with accounts by local eyewitnesses, (and try to decide who was telling the truth and who wasn’t).
“The O.K. Corral Inquest”; by Alford E. Turner (ISBN 0-932702-16-3) Published by the Creative Publishing Company; College Station, TX. 77840
I know of one cop who wouldn't recommend the smackdown with a Colt Python... you can end up with a bent barrel.
Hmmm solid frame... heavy barrel... USFA Omni?
Hmmm solid frame... heavy barrel... USFA Omni?
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Smackdown
I wouldn't recommend a smackdown with any handgun. That's what saps are for...
I wouldn't recommend a smackdown with any handgun. That's what saps are for...
Missouri Mule
Member
A Colt of course....1911 chambered for .45acp!!
IndianaDean
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I was aware the fight did not occur at the corral.
Several months ago (on a really unrelated note, but oh well...) I saw a program called Haunted Tombstone. This guy said people that sometimes come out to the actual site of the battle at 3 am see a man dressed in late 1800's garb, they claim it's a ghost.
Is it any wonder that people tend to see these 'ghosts' when it's closing time at the saloon?
A 6" 686 would do the job nicely however!
Several months ago (on a really unrelated note, but oh well...) I saw a program called Haunted Tombstone. This guy said people that sometimes come out to the actual site of the battle at 3 am see a man dressed in late 1800's garb, they claim it's a ghost.
Is it any wonder that people tend to see these 'ghosts' when it's closing time at the saloon?
A 6" 686 would do the job nicely however!
The_Shootist
Member
WWWC?
Makarov
Makarov
45+
Member
Marshall said:Some things never change
Now that is a six-shooter!
Good shootin'....
A chopped down Colt Buntline special in 44-40......you can't teach an old dog new tricks.
Lets think about it one minute. If you were revived in 2106 and someone wants to arm you. Would you want what you were familiar with, and knew how to use to good effect. Or some new fangled laser blaster you know nothing about?
A pair of Colt SAA in .44-40 and a 12 gauge double barrel still are somewhat effective today. Ideal? No. But effective? Yes.....I suspect that in 100 years time my Steyr AUG and HK Mark 23 won't be completely useless.......Unless all the bad guys are wearing kevlar clothing...then I would have to master head shots. lol
Lets think about it one minute. If you were revived in 2106 and someone wants to arm you. Would you want what you were familiar with, and knew how to use to good effect. Or some new fangled laser blaster you know nothing about?
A pair of Colt SAA in .44-40 and a 12 gauge double barrel still are somewhat effective today. Ideal? No. But effective? Yes.....I suspect that in 100 years time my Steyr AUG and HK Mark 23 won't be completely useless.......Unless all the bad guys are wearing kevlar clothing...then I would have to master head shots. lol
Caution: Bad joke follows
You old geezers may remember this Wyatt Earp joke about a 60's TV show about him. Here goes:
Question: When do you put a bucket in front of your TV?
Answer: When you're going to watch Wyatt Earp!
Get it? Wyatt
Earp............urp.............barf.
Sorry. I just had to do it.
You old geezers may remember this Wyatt Earp joke about a 60's TV show about him. Here goes:
Question: When do you put a bucket in front of your TV?
Answer: When you're going to watch Wyatt Earp!
Get it? Wyatt
Earp............urp.............barf.Sorry
. I just had to do it.1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Effective?
Quote:
"A pair of Colt SAA in .44-40 and a 12 gauge double barrel still are somewhat effective today. Ideal? No. But effective? Yes....."
********************************
Well, as to that...A man wouldn't be too badly armed with a good sidearm...
1911 for me...and a M-94 Winchester 30-30 carbine, if he knows his rifle and
can put it to good use. It holds 7 rounds if one is in the spout...it allows the Shoot one/Load one drill without taking it out of battery...and ammo is available everywhere at less than half the cost of .308 or Aught-Six.
Zero at 125 yards and install a Lyman tang-mounted aperture sight zeroed at 175. Flip it up for the longer shots and levering the bolt lays it back down if the recoil doesn't do it for ya.
Short, fast-handling, and accurate enough for 90% of the shots that you're likely to have to take...in a 6-pound package. 19th Century technology ain't
as obsolete as one might think prima facia. Ol' Wyatt might just stick to what he knows...and he'd still be a pretty dangerous adversary.
Quote:
"A pair of Colt SAA in .44-40 and a 12 gauge double barrel still are somewhat effective today. Ideal? No. But effective? Yes....."
********************************
Well, as to that...A man wouldn't be too badly armed with a good sidearm...
1911 for me...and a M-94 Winchester 30-30 carbine, if he knows his rifle and
can put it to good use. It holds 7 rounds if one is in the spout...it allows the Shoot one/Load one drill without taking it out of battery...and ammo is available everywhere at less than half the cost of .308 or Aught-Six.
Zero at 125 yards and install a Lyman tang-mounted aperture sight zeroed at 175. Flip it up for the longer shots and levering the bolt lays it back down if the recoil doesn't do it for ya.
Short, fast-handling, and accurate enough for 90% of the shots that you're likely to have to take...in a 6-pound package. 19th Century technology ain't
as obsolete as one might think prima facia. Ol' Wyatt might just stick to what he knows...and he'd still be a pretty dangerous adversary.
I don’t know if our intrepid frontier marshal of yesteryear could make it today or not. During his tour of duty folks weren’t as considerate of criminals as the do-gooders and bliss-nannies are now. In fact old-timers used to use some of the outlaw gentry to decorate trees… 
About the time ol’ Wyatt dropped a hostile drunk with a rap to the noggin, he and whoever he was working for would be sued into the ground by some bottom feeder claiming that he’s been too brutal.
Then some leftist would show up from California and complain that the living conditions in his jail weren’t good enough seeing that they lacked color TV and a video game console.
If that wasn’t enough, the department he’d signed on with would likely tell him to park his .45 six-shooter and use some plastic pistol with small-bore cartridges.
Seems likely that after this he’d walk….
Police work is not what it used to be…
About the time ol’ Wyatt dropped a hostile drunk with a rap to the noggin, he and whoever he was working for would be sued into the ground by some bottom feeder claiming that he’s been too brutal.
Then some leftist would show up from California and complain that the living conditions in his jail weren’t good enough seeing that they lacked color TV and a video game console.
If that wasn’t enough, the department he’d signed on with would likely tell him to park his .45 six-shooter and use some plastic pistol with small-bore cartridges.
Seems likely that after this he’d walk….
Police work is not what it used to be…
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Police Work
Eh...You're probably right, Fuff. He'd likely go into bounty huntin'.
Er, ah...I mean "Bail Bond Enforcement."
Eh...You're probably right, Fuff. He'd likely go into bounty huntin'.
Er, ah...I mean "Bail Bond Enforcement."
Someone posted seeing a Colt New Service "Fitz" special with a lead-filled grip... if that wasn't for the smackdown then what was it for?
(Agree that a SW has an advantage in the shrouded ejector rod here.)
I was always of the opinion that if you KNOW it's high noon and the killers are coming on the train you should find a handy deer rifle and kill them from a ways off... when the undertaker gets there the'll be stiff enough to load into the wagon easily.
Unless you go for the paint the town red option. "Welcome home boys."
(Agree that a SW has an advantage in the shrouded ejector rod here.)
I was always of the opinion that if you KNOW it's high noon and the killers are coming on the train you should find a handy deer rifle and kill them from a ways off... when the undertaker gets there the'll be stiff enough to load into the wagon easily.
Unless you go for the paint the town red option. "Welcome home boys."
grendelbane
Member
Well, I double-checked, and yes, I was cleaning a Savage .32 at the time. Now I am cleaning a Remington model 51, (nickel plated, :banghead: ).
Old Fuff, what do you think about the theory I once read that some of the old western types like Wyatt wore body armor? I am talking about heavy silk vests from the orient. Most handgun cartridges of the late 19th century were soft lead and low velocity, so I see no reason why a multi layer heavy silk vest would not work.
Now, back to cleaning. Wyatt borrowed my 1917 Colt, and there is some thing on the side of the barrel. Looks like ketchup! Next time he wants to borrow something he gets plastic pistol, I forget what its name is.
Old Fuff, what do you think about the theory I once read that some of the old western types like Wyatt wore body armor? I am talking about heavy silk vests from the orient. Most handgun cartridges of the late 19th century were soft lead and low velocity, so I see no reason why a multi layer heavy silk vest would not work.
Now, back to cleaning. Wyatt borrowed my 1917 Colt, and there is some thing on the side of the barrel. Looks like ketchup! Next time he wants to borrow something he gets plastic pistol, I forget what its name is.
Suposedly Wyatt's armor was chain-mail rather then plates...
There was a story about someone that got shot in Tombstone that was wearing a silk shirt or some-such. In any case the doctor found that the bullet had carried the material into the wound, but not gone through the cloth. I don't remember the details, but maybe I can find the source.
I doubt that Wyatt had any armor, especially given the heat in Kansas and Arizona during the Summer. Also no known examples have survived to this day, and I think it's unlikely he'd have a one-of-a-kind outfit.
He did get bullet holes through his clothing though. Some people are just plain lucky...
Nickel-plated Remington 51, you say??????
Nice pistol, poor head-knocker...
There was a story about someone that got shot in Tombstone that was wearing a silk shirt or some-such. In any case the doctor found that the bullet had carried the material into the wound, but not gone through the cloth. I don't remember the details, but maybe I can find the source.
I doubt that Wyatt had any armor, especially given the heat in Kansas and Arizona during the Summer. Also no known examples have survived to this day, and I think it's unlikely he'd have a one-of-a-kind outfit.
He did get bullet holes through his clothing though. Some people are just plain lucky...
Nickel-plated Remington 51, you say??????
Nice pistol, poor head-knocker...
grendelbane
Member
Better than a Savage .32! Bigger bullet too, though it does not shoot as many times. The Savage had the politically correct magazine capacity of 10 rounds almost a century before the concept of 10 round mags became popular.
I have been studying the history of armor for the last couple of centuries. Armor never really quite died out, though it came close, and has seen a resurgence of popularity in my life time. Kevlar and other materials have brought new life to an old idea.
Supposedly, the Mongols wore a silk under tunic beneath their mail for the same purpose that you describe. An arrow would penetrate the mail, and force its way into the flesh for a short distance, but could be easily removed, as the silk would not be pierced, but would fold around the arrow head. Not sure that I believe this ever happened more than rarely, probably silk was the most comfortable fabric between skin and metal links.
Also supposedly, ArchDuke Franz Ferdinand was wearing a silk armor vest on the day he was assassinated. Probably good protection against low velocity lead revolver bullets, but not the full metal patch bullets of the auto pistols which had come into use by then.
Reports of 1930's era gangsters using "bulletproof" vests abound. Some were apparently stolen from police stations. I must admit to total ignorance of this level of armor technology. I assume that they were segmented plate types. Chain mail might work well against edged weapons, but I don't think it would be too effective against bullets. I could be wrong, though. I have read reports of some British officers going into the trenches with hand me down chain mail underneath their uniforms. I doubt that provided much ballistic protection, but might have been good protection in the hand to hand combat of the trenches.
The broomhandle Mauser supposedly developed a good reputation for penetrating body armor. Some body had to be wearing armor for this reputation to develop.
Enough talk for now, I have to clean my Series 70 .38 Super.
geekWithA.45
Moderator Emeritus
Re: silk armor.
One of the things I'd read was that the mongol's silk shirts protected them from the archery of the day. The arrows would penetrate the skin, but not the shirt, facilitating removal and kept the wound relatively clean.
One of the things I'd read was that the mongol's silk shirts protected them from the archery of the day. The arrows would penetrate the skin, but not the shirt, facilitating removal and kept the wound relatively clean.
Sean85746
Member
Colt Python....6", Ultimate Stainless.
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