When openly carrying isn't considered to be open?

[djsjd]

Is there a consensus on when a holster, by its very use, constitues concealed carry? I mean, if you're packing your piece in a fanny pack, it's obviously concealed... But if your holster has a flap, is it no longer considered concealed? Is there some magic formula that X% of the pistol needs to be exposed, or if the grip or barrel must be showing?

From years of experience carrying a computer on my hip in a 'pouch,' I've never had a problem. Sure people have noticed, but write if off to a catagory best described as being 'Geek' - not 'Gun.' Many small pistols would fit in this pouch, but would that be considered carrying concealed?

 

[stans]

I am not aware of any formula which will determine whether a handgun is being carried concealed or openly carried. Generally speaking, if the firearm in not in plain view, then it is considered concealed. This can get a little fuzzy when inside a vehicle. Is a firearm locked in a glove box concealed? If it is on the dashboard, is it concealed? If it is sitting on the center console, is it concealed? Under the seat is pretty much considered concealed.

For carry, if the firearm can be clearly seen by the public, it is not usually considered concealed. If you put on a garment that covers the firearm and it is no longer clearly visible, then it is concealed. I don't think a flap holster would be considered concealed, especially since the butt of the pistol is usually visible.

 

[CrudeGT]

I've often wondered this too. If I use one of my IWB, but my shirt is tucked in. Is this considered concealed or open? It;s not too much of a concern for myself, open carry is legal in Utah and I have a CCW. So either way I'm in the clear. But it would be good food for thought.

 

[Standing Wolf]

I don't think a flap holster would be considered concealed, especially since the butt of the pistol is usually visible.

Makes perfect sense to me, but I'm sure there are plenty of assault lawyers who'd be glad to argue otherwise.

 

[Dr.Rob]

3/4 of it covered by your coat can get you in trouble. The Colorado DOW says something like "Hunters may carry handguns for protection as long as they are not concealed."

Now EVERY Game Warden that's stopped me, even in the harshest weather hasn't balked at the grip of my sixgun being hidden under my coat... but you never know.

My six gun does ride in a flap-type cross draw. Pretty darn hard to conceal.

 

[P95Carry]

I think concealed must - by definiton .. mean just that. No firearm can be seen ..... and I'd have to include things like flap holsters because implicit by their very design ... they can be seen to be a ''gun holder''!! Even if empty they might be hard to see as such - and so maybe more ''frightening'' to the ninnies! .

If however I had just my hi-ride belt slide .. empty of it's usual resident then I would not consider either that I was carrying or ... even be concerned about concealment.

So - as far as open goes .. I'd expect that to be total exposure of the piece and its rig. Tho as Dr Rob points out .. sometimes even that is hard to fully follow!

 

[Treylis]

Depends on state law.

Here in Arizona, only a "portion of the holster" has to be visible. There's been a court ruling that fanny packs aren't sufficiently holsterlike to count as holsters, but I don't know about side-packs. If you have a CCW nanny permission slip, though, you're fine either way.

 

[TallPine]

Isn't it disgusting that we have to have this discussion at all ...?


Cop: "Sir, I'm going to have to arrest you because your coat is one-half inch too long."

 

[Dr.Rob]

Sorry, after re-reading this topic... concealing a firearm in something designed to look like a man-purse, PDA pouch etc is carrying concealed... without a permit you are likely breaking the law.

Open carry pretty much recognizes that your gun/holster is visible and recognizable as a gun.

There is a big difference in saying 'sorry Bob you coat is to long' and 'gee Bob feel like getting popped for a felony because you were trying to be cute with the law?'

Whether you agree with the law as it currently is... ignorance of the law is no excuse.

 

[Treylis]

Isn't it disgusting that we have to have this discussion at all ...?

I get the exact same sentiment a lot of the time reading this board, heh.

 

[jimmyjoebob]

Treylis hit it right, it depends on state law.

For example, in MS the statute reads "concealed in whole or in part" when defining carrying a concealed weapon. Well technically carry a weapon in an exposed holster would be considered carrying concealed. Would I reccomend for people to do that? Nope, but in theory it is legal. Things that make you do hmmmm..

 

[Variable]

I don't think a flap holster would be considered concealed, especially since the butt of the pistol is usually visible.

I'd have to agree with Standing Wolf, that this is most likey to be considered concealed. I have asked a few LEO's/Sheriff in my area and the general idea is its considered concealed. Mind you this is just my area that Ive asked in Southern Oregon.

 

[db4]

Variable- the LEO response about holsters speaks more to ignorance of the law. Oregon statutes specifically state that holstered carry is considered open, not concealed. Of course, just because you are legal doesn't mean you won't be arrested...

 

[Smoke]

Texas law states something to the effect that it not be detectable by a "reasonable"person.

In theory if you have a gun in your front pocket completely covered, but I can tell by the outline that you have a gun in your pocket - it ain't concealed.


Smoke

 

[DMK]

Texas law states something to the effect that it not be detectable by a "reasonable"person.

That's the way it should be. If you are wearing a flap holster that's pretty obviously for a gun, then it's not concealed. If you are carrying your gun "hidden in plain sight" in a PDA case on your belt, then it is concealed.