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Where can't I carry a gun in PA?

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Alan Fud

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When I lived in FL, the laws were listed on a website and it was pretty simple to follow. Not so here in PA. Nothing on any official website anywhere and a trip to the library turned up a law book from 1978 which I'm sure is outdated by now.

Some basic questions:
  1. Is all government property off-limits or only polling places and court houses?

  2. What about private property like an amusement park? Or zoo? Calling them up ahead of time doesn't do much good because most of the time the person on the other end of the phone is an anti who has never even heard of the CCW provision in the law and goes into a panic as soon as a gun is mentioned.

  3. Final question ... can I open carry on my own property? I live in the middle of nowhere with woods all around me. When taking the dog out in the backyard, I normally have a gun with me in case something comes out of the woods. Sometimes I don't bother to holster up and just have flashlight in one hand and a firearm in the other hand because it's only going to take a few minutes.

    Other families are starting to move in around me. If someone saw me with gun in hand on my own property and reported me, would I be in violation of some law? Do I need to invest in a concealed holster even for my own property.
 
1) What do you mean by government property? Property such as military bases? Local government property such as Magistrate court, County Courthouses, etc?

As far as local government, you can carry into certain places, such as the walk up window, desk area. Most places have it posted so that you can not carry into the courtroom. County courthouse will also not let you carry inside. They have lock boxes at the metal detectors. There is nothing that says you can't carry in polling places either. If your carrying concealed, who is going to know anyway?

2) You can legally carry into those places you mentioned. If you are seen/discovered, they will ask you to leave. If you refuse, then you are a defiant tresspasser and can be charged as such.

3) You can carry on your property.
 
Thanks Steve. My main question is regards to ... Firearms and ammunition are prohibited in child day care centers (55 Pa. Code § 3270.79), group child day care homes located in buildings that are not residences (§ 3280.79(a)), child residential and day treatment facilities (§ 3800.101), or community homes for individuals with mental retardation (§ 6400.86). ... I take my daughter to a lot of "children places" such as the Crayola factory, etc. If I am discovered to be carrying there via a metal detector, do they merely ask me to leave as you outlined above in your answer or have I already violated one of the above sections that I quoted?
 
Fud...................further clarification????

Does this apply to those of us with a CCW permiit??
1st I've seen that reg - not that I have need to go to a day-care.

I know K-12 schools are off-limits, but this is a new surprise
 
Alan ..... I open carry at home, at least it's open when shirt off! :) I take as the no-no's here - Court Houses and Schools. Also have to be aware of any Fed areas which includes national battle sites too.

We can go into bars, post offices, banks etc ... as I understand it - and I do but as ever, concealed is concealed. I regard those places BTW as important to be able to carry - it is just such places where something could go down.

Child day care centers? Not had that occur but guess they count as school category, going by the bit of statute you reproduced. Sounds a tad gray.

If Steve has any qualifying additions it'd be useful to hear them. I keep trying to make sure I am up to speed.
 
Since I have no idea as to what Title 55 is, I'm assuming that means the storage of firearms and ammunition, not the carrying of.
 
My main question is regards to ... Firearms and ammunition are prohibited in child day care centers (55 Pa. Code § 3270.79), group child day care homes located in buildings that are not residences (§ 3280.79(a)), child residential and day treatment facilities (§ 3800.101), or community homes for individuals with mental retardation (§ 6400.86). ...
Click to expand...

That code seems to be about the running of a day care. In other words the day care can't store firearms and ammunition although they can apparently apply for a waiver. Or at least that's the way this reads to me.

§ 3270.79. Firearms.

Weapons, firearms and ammunition are prohibited in a child day care center.

Cross References

This section cited in 55 Pa. Code § 3270.13 (relating to waivers); and 55 Pa. Code § 3270.241 (relating to requirements specific to school-age programs).
Click to expand...

http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/055/chapter3270/s3270.79.html

§ 3270.13. Waivers.

(a) A waiver excuses an operator from meeting a regulatory standard and substitutes another standard which the operator shall meet. The substituted standard has the same legal effect as the regulatory standard.

(b) The operator shall submit the request for waiver to the regional office before the facility is inspected for issuance or renewal of a certificate of compliance.

(c) An operator may request a waiver of only the regulatory standards in the following sections:

(1) Accreditation requirements which apply to § § 3270.34—3270.36 (relating to director qualifications and responsibilities; group supervisor qualifications and responsibilities; and assistant group supervisor qualifications and responsibilities).

(2) Physical site requirements in § § 3270.61—3270.82 (relating to physical site).

(3) Equipment requirements in § § 3270.101—3270.108 (relating to equipment).

(4) Program requirements in § § 3270.111—3270.118 (relating to program).

(d) The Department will grant a waiver only if the following conditions are met:

(1) The waiver is not requested as a substitute for correcting a Departmental citation of noncompliance.

(2) The request for waiver does not alter the applicability or purpose of a regulation.

(3) The request shows evidence that the operator has a plan to achieve the objective of the regulation.

(4) The request certifies that the operator will meet regulatory standards related to the health, safety and rights of children.

(5) The request for waiver does not violate or condone noncompliance with another Federal or State statute or regulation.

(6) The request for waiver may not jeopardize Federal or State funding.

(e) A waiver previously granted for staff person qualifications remains in effect for the staff person at the location specified.

Cross References

This section cited in 55 Pa. Code § 3270.241 (relating to requirements specific to school-age programs).
Click to expand...
 
Direct answers to question:

(IANAL, YMMV, CAVEAT EMPTOR. E PLURIBUS UNUM)

-Federal Jurisdiction: see federal law. Anecdote: A good friend of mine was "made" at the metal detector when entering a public building that happened to also have a federal court elsewhere in it. The deputy at the gates passed him through based on his LTCF, warning him not to go into the federal area.

-State law prohibits carriage of a firearm into a courtroom or judges chambers. Some courthouses "improvise" on this, an prohibit carriage in the building generally. This is extra legal, and have been successfully fought down. Lockboxes MUST be provided. Often they aren't but the deputies guarding the gates will check your sidearm, and most people don't get bent out of shape on that.

-Primary and Secondary Schools: The prohibition is general, but vaguely worked "lawful purposes" language implies that it _might_ be OK for LTCF holders. The state AG has refused to comment, noting that it's not the role of the AG to interpret law, and that there is no case law to clarify the question. Since no one wants to push the issue, schools are generally considered to be "off limits".

-State Parks: Laws conflict on this matter with respect to LTCF holders, and again has not been clarified in case law. The position of the parks service is that people discovered to be armed will be asked to leave, and if they do not, they will be arrested for trespass.

-Open Carriage: If you have no disqualification for posessing a firearm in PA, and do not posess an LTCF, there is no law prohibiting open carry EXCEPT in Philadelphia, and in your car. This is common in some places, and alarming in others, proceed with caution and due prudence. There are also complications that may arise from handgun carriage in conjunction with hunting activities that conflict with game laws. In a state of emergency, the governor may suspend firearm carriage in public. Suspension of carriage during a state of emergency does not apply to LTCF holders.

-Carriage on your own property: Whatever floats your boat.

-Private property other than your own: Generally not addressed with respect to privately owned "places of public accommodation". We have nothing like "posting", but apparently property rights may be asserted, and entry denied. This apparently follows case law surrounding "dress codes" and the like, rather than any statuatory reference to carriage of arms. Many urban clubs are gatekept by metal detectors.
 
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